Dr. Warren Larson Lecture: Folk Islamic Saints/Pirs (Pt. 1)

Dr. Warren Larson delivered a lecture on Saints (Pirs) Folk Islam during a CIU course. Here, Larson presents what Saints (Pirs) are in Islam, Saints in the Qur’an and within the Islamic traditions, Saint veneration, and whether Muhammad was a Saint.

  Here starts the auto-generated transcription of Dr. Warren Larson Lecture: Dr. Warren Larson Lecture: Islamic Saints/Pīrs (Pt. 1)

 

Let’s talk about Saints, or the the name for them is Piers, p I r s, not p e e r, but piers is another name for them, quite a common name, but there are other names in other parts of the world. Saints, certainly not saints in the sense that we think of them. This is not a matter of piety, but a matter of power. In other words, power is really what you’re looking for here in this definition, but, in other words, not not virtue, but power. And let’s, let’s look at some verses from the Quran.

 

I guess, one here is 6 and rather, 1060 2, and that is, behold, verily, on the friends of Allah. There is no fear. You see? As if everyone is not a friend, those who believe and guard against evil, in other words, there are some who make it into this category. Isn’t it interesting when you think of the fact that we are as Christians, we’re all saints?

 

There is no hierarchy. There is no special class. We are all saints. If Paul would write to people and he did to the saints in Rome, to the saints here, to the saints there, even though they had quite a few problems without fail, nevertheless, Paul calls them saints because they’re children of God as we are. But there is this word for friend, they’re, wally, they’re the friends of God, and this is another name for for them.

 

We’ve referred to this before, this Ujwudi Datta Ganj Bakhsh, who is a Persian saint, who’s Sufi who’s buried in Lahore, Sufi saint, and died in 10/77, Lahore, Pakistan. Saints are chosen as governors of God’s kingdom. Not everyone, as I mentioned before, according to Islam the par folk Islam are in the same category, but these special special class, and they are special. The legend has it that they are purified from natural corruption, that they only think of God. Really?

 

I would wonder about that. Remember, that sometimes even though they give this impression that they’re holy, I would think that they struggle with the same temptations we do. Remember, Martin Luther? Despite his struggle with sin and, and laying on, you know, and torturing his body, he still struggled with these things and finally realized that he was justified by faith, not by his efforts. So I don’t think that they do only think of God.

 

I think that if they give you that impression, I think they’re giving you a false impression because we’re all the same. We are all struggle with sin and with temptation. And and and, legend has it that the their body defies decomposition. This is also a hogwash. I don’t think it’s true, but that is understood in Egypt, but it’s true also of some Coptic saints.

 

In other words, these are Christian saints and, some Christians would have the same idea about their saints and I suspect that it’s not just Coptics. Here’s a, something. The more a man loves God, the more does his heart revere what he commands, and the further is his body from what he forbids. So this is, you see, the the old idea is that there’s this you can get into this special category where you’re now we do know we do know that there is growth, isn’t there? Becoming more like Christ and and more holy.

 

But nevertheless, we are, we also know that we are always, always, always, human beings and we are prone to, I think, sin. Now, Quran and Traditions, let’s think a little bit about about this in this lecture 25. What happened? In other words, how did this this take place? Well, you had Islamic monotheism, which is strong, strict, but then you had the old ideas of the mediator.

 

So you’ve got the tension. Islam rejected some of it, it transformed some of it, and it assimilated some of it. The Koran says that, we won’t look these verses up from the Koran, but you can look them up if you want to. The Quran says in 7188 that there is no power to accept as Allah wills, no knowledge of the unseen. It says that the Jews and there’s this accusation made that the Jews make their doctors and monks lords, high and mighty.

 

But and then Mohammed said that he said, am I not, am I ought, but a man? In other words, he didn’t possess to be anything, you know, greater than that. He didn’t possess he didn’t profess to be greater than the other prophets, But, you know, there is this struggle. People want a miracle, and they can’t hardly believe without it. It’s just we we know that this was true in the days of Christ too.

 

People, you know, Jesus did miracles. People, sometimes they demanded a miracle, and Jesus said sometimes I remember one time he was saying, look, there ain’t going to be no miracle. You guys, you are refusing to believe, and so this happened in Muhammad’s day as well. It seems to be part of human nature. They wanted a miracle, and they couldn’t believe without it, his claims, but Mohammed refused.

 

In other words, and and and and, we’ve noticed this before. I think we’ve touched on it that the, in the Koran, it’s, Mohammed is more modest and more truthful. In other words, he doesn’t claim to to be able to do miracles and stuff, but in the traditions, a 100, 150 years after the Quran, it seems that Mohammed can intercede and that in itself makes you suspect that a lot of it is just is just made up because there, in the traditions and in the, you know, if Muhammad then he can intercede, And yet there is this uneasiness there’s this uneasiness, because, some Muslims have strongly resisted it. For instance, the Hamblites, which is one school of law, resisted this veneration movement. But nevertheless, nevertheless, you see the roots of the development of the veneration of Muhammad, and this is particularly acute right now in in the day in which we’re we’re living.

 

In other words, I mean today as is in September the 21st, 9 2012 because of what’s happened in the Middle East, the anti Islam film. Ayesha said that a prophet is one who sees what you do not and also said, who knows secret things. So that’s the roots. We’re talking about roots now. Roots.

 

So Mohammed then becomes a paradigm of meaning, worship of saints. At at one point, it says in the Quran in 6 and 50, it says say and this, of course, God is saying this, kul, which over and over in the Quran, gives you the idea that, you know, you’re it’s just this kingly relationship, say, do this, that, the other thing. I tell you not that with me are are the treasures of Allah, nor do I know what is hidden, nor do I tell you I am an angel. I follow what is revealed to me. So you see, as we’ve been saying, Mohammed refuses He refuses, sorry about that.

 

He refuses to to get into this, but but I in other words, 18 110, as I mentioned, say, I am but a man like yourselves, but inspiration comes to me to me that your god is one god. So in other words, Mohammed says I’m I’m I’m a man, but I get the inspiration, therefore, I’m a prophet. Nothing more. I’m a warner. So, and then they keep saying to him, and I keep, jumping ahead of myself here.

 

They they keep arguing for things. And, 29 in verse 50, yet they say, why are not signs sent down to him from his Lord? Say these signs are indeed with Allah. I am indeed a warner. So you see the argument goes back and forth.

 

And, one of the, one of the issues here is we’ll just look at several of these at one time, and that has to do with the the matter of Mohammed’s sin, because, Muslims today would, would argue till they’re blue in the face and they will fight about it, that Mohammed is sinless. We aren’t going to read these verses from the Quran, but let me just refer to some of them from the screen, and I think that you should remember these verses. You should remember that in the, you know, particularly chapter 47, chapter 48, and then I think the last one might be chapter 40 that actually on the page there, the class notes, it’s 4055, 4721, and 481. Well, let’s look at these verses. One of them is 4055, ask forgiveness for thy sins.

 

Okay? And, and then, Again, know God but God and ask forgiveness for thy sin, 4721 and then 481, that God may be forgive thy former and thy latter sins. Now there are lots of verses in the Quran that refer to Muhammad’s sins, and these are some of them. There are lots of them, not just in the Quran, but even in the traditions as well, which come later. So we cannot really Muslims are really they’re up against it.

 

They’re up against the Quran, but nevertheless nevertheless, today, Muhammad is sinless and so then the Muslims would say, well, yes, all the prophets are sinless. And we I sometimes wonder how far this thing is gonna go, is the veneration of Mohammed as a saint, and I’ve mentioned this before, because today, right today is is was called Love the Prophet Day in Friday, Pakistan. But but we but but riots have been taking place all over the Muslim world in the last few days, and people have been killed. We lost an ambassador in Libya in Benghazi, Chris Stevens, and 3 of his associates. We’ve been praying for the families of those who were slain in the rage because of this anti Muhammad film that was made in Southern California by someone who calls himself a competent Christian, a guy by the name of Nakula, who was not a very nice guy and certainly doesn’t love Muslims and does certainly knew what was going to happen when this came out, but you see, it doesn’t make sense to us.

 

We were looking at this last night in class and wondering how could it happen and so I said to them, well, you know, it’s sort of like because in Christianity Jesus, you know, the word becomes flesh and in Islam, the word becomes book, which, of course, Quran and Mohammed are very close together in the blasphemy laws, one same thing really, But but just like if we were to, you know, be present when people try to destroy Christ and, kill him or burn him or something like that. Like Peter, you know, who raised his sword, this is what Muslims are doing, trying to defend Islam, and they think that if we don’t defend it, him or the Quran, then we are not really loyal Muslims. We don’t love him. And so you have this fanatic, fanatic attitude even though Mohammed was was not perfect. I sometimes think that if Mohammed was alive today, he would be very surprised at the veneration that he is becoming getting.

 

And it has evolved, but I think we have seen that it does have a chronic basis. Here’s one extreme poem, you know, poets over they express themselves, but sometimes they go overboard with emotion. Welcome, oh high prince of heaven, one of them wrote. We greet you. Welcome, oh one who is not separated from God.

 

Welcome, oh intercessor, for the sinners. Really? Welcome, oh prince of this world, and the next. Only for you, time and space, are created. And, Muhammad sainthood grows, and, he becomes the way to God.

 

He becomes, the savior in in many sense in every sense of the word. And so some Sufis asked the followers to bless Muhammad 300 times a day. And you get some of these roots out of the Quran 33 and 56, Allah and his angels send blessings on the prophet. Oh, that you believe, send your blessings on him and saint him with all respect. See?

 

So, you know, when Muslims today mention the name of Mohammed, what do they say? They say: May God bless him and grant him salvation, not just peace be upon him. So, there you have it, blessing him, blessing him, blessing him. You wonder why they have to bless him 300 times a day or anybody has to bless him once a day, Mohammed really grows much, much larger than than a man and there is, there is the roots for it in the Quran. It becomes much more larger than life and I wonder sometimes where it’s going to grow because on the one hand, the Quran denies it, but it seems to leave the door open for it and so we are in this, predicament today.

 

And the hadith may not be the exact words of Muhammad, but it does reveal Muslim sentiment, and it is built on Muslim interest. You know? We don’t always can’t get a hold of the facts, but we can realize the sentiment, the feeling. And I was telling my class this last night that when we look at study of the Quran, we don’t just look at, you know, how it was pulled together, collected and collated and all that kind of stuff, but we try to figure out how Muslims feel about it and, do everything that Mohammed did. There are all kinds of verses in the Quran about this evolution where he’s larger than life and I think what we need to keep in mind is from that paradigm, then you have these saints today and how Muhammad has grown in his stature.

 

He becomes a fortune teller, he becomes a miracle worker, he becomes a magician, and all of those things. And the preaching about the prophet is, extremely, in Pakistan where I was, is extremely common. In other words, that’s what they preach about. Oftentimes he’s Muhammad. Why?

 

And I guess you can always ask why did this happen? How could this happen? And, I I admit that it is satanic. It is satanic and there is this spiritual aspect to it where Satan, I suppose, is trying to pull attention away from the one and only who deserves to be glorified and that’s Jesus Christ and heaping it on Mohammed through ignorance and superstition, perhaps even through vain hopes, Unrealistic, stuff really because it’s so far from the facts. Let us pray that God would use this extreme.

 

You know, Satan, I think, he defeats himself and we need to pray and trust God that he will turn all of this away for his own glory so that Muslims will come to Christ and that’s what we hope and pray for.