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Once again, Muslim terrorists A terrorist Islamic extremist. Extremist. These is not irrelevant. It is a warning. Welcome to the truth about Muslims podcast, the official podcast of the Swimmer Center For Muslim Studies, where we help to educate you beyond the media.

Here are your hosts, Howard and Trevor. Today’s episode is, homegrown terrorist, terrorist in the United States. Right. And our sponsors. Sponsors this week, Columbia International University.

Columbia educates people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ. And Zwemer Center. Zwemer Center, as always, educating you beyond the media. Wait, that’s us. That is us.

Us. We educate beyond the media, but what does the Zwemer Center do, Trevor? The Zwemer Center has been equipping the church since 1979 to understand Muslims. Before it was cool. Before it was cool.

Yeah. 35 years of educating people to understand Muslims so that we can reach them with the gospel. Gospel. Glory. Alright.

So, Howard, this week you, had an interesting encounter with an old friend. Right. Yeah. So this was really good because this kinda gives me the ability to kind of feel the pulse of the American populace. Yeah.

This is, this is a story that’s, you know, it’s anecdotal. It’s our own experience, but at the same time, I think it’s more true than we wish it was. Right. And, you know, like, so I’m just this normal guy, 37 years old, lives in America, grew up in the States. He’s a nazzy dresser.

Love mhmm. Thank you. Loves Jesus, you know, and just trying to, figure out how to how we fit, what we’re supposed to do, what’s our Christian response. And so I think there’s a lot of people that kinda fit that demographic, especially on social media. So I talked to this guy, and we, you know, caught up, had had a good time.

And he just asked me what my thoughts on ISIS was and, it’s amazing that that’s the conversation. You’re sitting down with an old friend and this is often the conversation with me, but I work in the context of, teaching, in a university setting about Islam, about Muslim Christian relations. But I think it’s not just because of what I do. I think everybody is talking about Islam. It’s like the weather.

Yeah. It’s it’s on What are your thoughts on ISIS? It’s exciting, and it’s in everyone’s head. And there’s a concern, so I think it’s kind of a triple threat. Yeah.

But, anyway, so I’m talking to this guy. Right. And I’m talking to this guy, and we just, you know, kinda talk. And he just shared something that his pastor had posted on Facebook. And I don’t remember all the details, but it just basically went where talking about support for arms against ISIS, which I get, you know, that that’s kind of a a thing, you know, where, you know, I think it’s pretty standard.

And, because, you know, it’s it’s a battle. It’s it’s there’s a lot of atrocities, that are happening. So, you know, they’re they’re wanting to make a stand. Well, anyway, so this guy, this friend of mine, he he post back because he just, you know, started to get close to this pastor. So he was kinda testing them out, feeling them out.

So he he made this, comment on there about how, you know, we need to share the gospel with with radical Muslims. But if that doesn’t work, it might need to be a bullet. And, of course, that brought me back to Bill Robertson. The beard. Right?

Yeah. That’s Doug Dynasty. Right. And so I was kind of, like, mesmerized because at the same time, like, I’m not condemning my friend or even the pastor. I’m just thinking to myself, this is what I think normal Christians probably are at.

Yeah. This is the conversation happening. I think while we’re making the Phil Robertson comment, the boom goes to the dynamite section of the show, I think it might actually be the the norm. Right. Because we were you know, like and I don’t know if this is just us, but I we were kinda making fun of it because it was, like, so, you know, ridiculous.

I think a little bit over the top, like, Phil Robinson’s gonna go and take his shotguns and shoot some people, you know? And I don’t even think that people think of it that way. I think people are like, yeah. He’s right. No.

I think a lot of people agreed with him, sadly. Right. So that was my friend, and and we had a great, you know, great time talking. We didn’t end up, like, arguing or anything like that, but I I it was really neat because I kinda shared my perspective, and I think that helped him a lot to kinda come away from, oh, yeah. I forgot we’re Christians.

Yeah. I think we easily forget because we’re inundated with media all the time telling us that, we should be afraid and be very afraid. Right. And then we’re also Americans, so we have guns and we can Americans. And we can fight.

And so, yeah, I mean, I get that. I get that. But the again, that Krishna response going above and beyond, you know, hating our enemies, but actually loving Yeah. Well, you know, that brings us to the the media this week. Lot of exciting stuff happening.

A lot going on. Where do you start? I wanna talk about Ebola. I don’t know why, but Ebola and Muslims, I I didn’t even know they go together, but they do. We’ll get to that later.

Yeah. Later in the show. Right. That’s gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah.

That’s our boom goes the dynamite section. Right. But but first of all, we gotta talk about the, there seems to be this epidemic. It’s coming. All these American teenagers are leaving the United States and joining ISIS.

And we say all these, very, very loosely, because it’s not really all these. But there is enough that it’s kind of being a little concerning, I think. It is. It’s bizarre. It’s concerning.

Yeah. Enough to make you uncomfortable. Right. Like, what is going on? So, yeah, tell us, man.

Well, we had the 1, this was a few weeks ago, the, Chicago teen. What was the name? Mohammed Khan. Right? From, I believe it was Pakistan who went to, was attempting to fly to Syria to join ISIS.

And so that was little bit of a concern. Here you have this young, young adult. I wouldn’t call him, you know, he’s a teenager because he’s, I believe he was 19 years old. I’m I’m not sure. Howard, see if you can pull that up, the news report.

But I believe he was a a young adult, really. And he He was arrested at at O’Hare Airport Right. From the FBI. And I believe it was his parents that turned him in finding out what was going on and being concerned. But, anyway, he was leaving the United States.

Yeah. He was he was 19. Mohammed Khan. Yep. Yeah.

How did he get turned in? I’m I’m gonna make sure I’m getting these all I I wanna make sure I have them all settled in my head because I know that’s the the the next story we’re gonna talk about. Their parents turned him in. But how did he get caught? Does it say there in the article how he was caught?

He warned, he he invited his family to join him in the 3 page letter Oh, that’s right. Which authorities found in his bedroom. Mhmm. And he told them he warned them not to tell anybody about his travel plans. Of course.

Right. Anyway You know, has I’m sure his family thought, you know, what is happening. This is crazy. No. Nobody wants to see their their their kid kinda go down this this path.

But you know what? Again, like we said in the show before, it’s, it’s a young age. You’re searching for identity, a place to belong. He, like the others that we’re gonna talk about, encountered some ISIS propaganda on the Internet and Right. Social media.

Apparently, they are very good on social media. I can’t figure out, how they’re getting away with this since social media is so public. But anyway, that’s where he kind of, encountered ISIS. Yeah. Like, we talked about that with the, the girl from Glasgow.

Right. Bedroom radical. That was the title of the article. Crying. That was the title of the article.

But, like, how compelling their their material must be. Yeah. Well, like I say, it’s not hard to convince a person to radicalize. You don’t need a Quran to do it. It’s more of a social, a sociological phenomenon and you use some propaganda.

You develop a couple conspiracy theories that have just enough truth in them to make you convinced that you have to go and join the fight against the west. So, anyway And then there was also that 19 year old American nurse? Yeah. She well, again Yeah. What happened there?

Apparently, ISIS these guys are winsome because this is the second one that has gone to, join ISIS as a bride. So she she also, met an ISIS fighter online. Do they have a do they have a dating website or something? I shouldn’t joke, but it does I mean, it sounds very bizarre. Right.

Because you’re hearing about these brides. I mean, they’re going for the bride. I’m yeah. To be a bride. So China she want, who was arrested after trying to fight with ISIS alongside extremist boyfriends she met online.

Yeah. So that again, this is a lot like the Glasgow, young woman who met an ISIS fighter online. She too was, was stopped. And But she was fighting. Like, as a woman, she was fighting, like, guns and fighting.

Right? And so that was interesting. That’s not exactly what I was thinking happens to a lot of these women that would go. I just assumed that they would be brides and stay at the camp or whatever they do. I mean Well, apparently, it’s okay, to join in the fight.

Maybe they’re taking after, one of my favorite historical characters actually, in Islam is, the young Aisha who was actually quite, the politician, quite the, exegete and also quite the, military leader. She was a young young woman but had great appeal to the masses and it’s really interesting because the radicals appeal to Ayesha as why women should be in the home and they shouldn’t have any rights. And then also the liberals appeal to Aisha as someone who had more rights than a lot of Muslim women have today. So she’s a really interesting character, but we’ll have to do a whole different podcast just on Ayesha. Right.

So there was also the 3 Denver girls. Yes. Teenagers again. Yeah. 22 of them were 15, and the oldest was 17.

They skipped school To join ISIS. Got on a plane to join ISIS and were, stopped in what was it? Germany? Yeah. In Frankfurt.

They had made it all the way to Frankfurt, and they had $2,000 cash. Yep. And they were turned in by their parents. Right. Because out what was going on.

Right. And, you know, don’t mess with mama. She found out what was going on and turned her daughters in. And so who knows how this is gonna go forward with a a trial because these are, you know, some of these are teenagers. Well, actually, I think I think they were they were taken home.

They were, met by the FBI. They were taken home, interviewed, or, I guess, interrogated and released. But that Because they’re because they’re, underage, I don’t know that we’ll find out exactly what will happen proceedings wise. I those those court documents, I think, have a a different, protocol. Right.

But what, you know, what was really interesting is that, another person, was on his way to join ISIS and got turned got caught and was brought back. And, he ended up actually killing or or it didn’t say if he was killing, but he he it was a soldier that had a man who had run over 2 soldiers. That’s right. Yeah. Yep.

And that was in Canada. Yes. And, yeah. So and then he he came and he they they ran off his car and he landed in a ditch. And when he came out, I guess he still continued to resist and he was shot dead.

Mhmm. But yeah. And that on top of the, news of the, the Canadian, terrorist act where someone came out Muslim and, killed one soldier at least, and, also had ties to wanting to join ISIS. So in some sense, I wouldn’t say this is an epidemic because we’re looking at a handful of people, but it’s enough to be concerning. Well, the the thing that I find really, really interesting is that it’s happening like, this was, like, within a couple of weeks.

All of these were, like, within a couple of weeks from each other. And so it wasn’t like it was, you know, like, once a year or twice a year, but it just seemed like it was just all of a sudden the the media was inundated with all of these stories of this random people that weren’t really, to be honest, tied with ISIS in a in a way that was being supported by an ISIS group. You know, it they were just guys that converted to Islam, maybe through propaganda online like we were talking about, and then all of a sudden decided to act. Right. No.

You have you have a history of, it’s a small history, I guess you could call it history, of, of Americans engaging in terrorist activity. You know, you have Anwar Al Aulaqi who was killed by a US drone strike in Yemen. He was an American citizen, was teaching at a mosque in Virginia. You have, Naidal Hassan who was, who was responsible for killing people at Fort Hood. You have Faisal, Shahzad, Pashtun American, that was attempted to, blow up the, New York Times Square.

And, you have, of course, the most recent Boston bombings of the the Sarnoff brothers who also, were had connections with Al Qaeda possibly in Dagestan. So it’s, you know, you have all of these things happening, but they were pretty spread out. This is this is the time where it seems like a lot of things happened in the last few weeks. So it is interesting, but we have to take it in in context. And I think that’s what we wanna do here today.

We wanna talk a little bit about the context of this because what you don’t wanna do is go home and say, hey, there’s this huge problem. We have, you know, all of these teenagers joining ISIS and wanting to, commit acts of terror on our own soil. Right. Something that you and I had to look up, just to kinda be clear because we talk we’re talking about terrorism a lot. But, so we looked up the definition, the FBI’s definition.

It defines terrorism as the unlawful use of force or violence against persons or property to intimidate or coerce a government, the civilian population, or any segment thereof in furtherance of political or social objectives. So these homegrown guys Right. Would you And gals. And gals, would you, you know, like, for the guy that, the the parliament shooting. Right?

He wasn’t a part of, you know, a terrorist group. I I think in his mind he was, and I think that does matter. I think I think in his perception, in his own imagination, he was doing this on behalf of ISIS. I think that that does have some some value to look at. Whether or not ISIS will claim him or it’s kinda they seem like a pretty open group.

But Anybody that’s willing to commit atrocities Yeah. I guess. I mean, just come on in. But I yeah. You’re right.

I don’t They didn’t have any support necessarily. Wasn’t necessarily, a part of ISIS, but I think in his own mind, he was and that and that does matter. But I think the bigger question, for me, Howard, is the whole, I I think it was originally. I couldn’t trace back the original person. I’ve heard this statistic thrown around a lot and that is that, 10% of the Muslim world, are radicalized.

And I’ve even heard people say, well, 10% of 10% of Muslims are terrorists. Right. And, you know, Sam Harris, Bill Maher, that that whole debate thing, they had thrown around numbers like that, the core of, of Islam Right. In in being extremists and terrorists and such. And that was interesting.

I I I would like to to see more of that or to to find out where they’re kinda getting that stuff from too. Well, I look back. I did find, where Glenn Beck a few years back had said 10% of Muslims are terrorists. Okay. And what were what what was that from?

Well, I you know, you can just throw a a stat oh, you mean what what show was it on? It was on his radio show. Where did Glenn where did Glenn Beck get that? I have no idea. Couldn’t figure it out.

Oh, okay. Farid Zachariah, what is it? Zachariah? Farid Zachariah on I think it’s CNN. I can’t remember the the broadcast that he works for.

But he, he kinda called him out on it and, did the math and said, so what you’re really saying is that we have a 160 1,000,000 terrorists walking around. That would be 10% of the 1,600,000,000 Muslims in the world. Right. So according to Beck, we have a 160,000,000 terrorists. And just to kinda give you context, I mean, the US is 3 around 300,000,000.

So half the population of the US are terrorists. Wow. And if you think about in the United States, depending on whose statistics you read, I like, vetted research organizations like Pew. I’ll go with their statistics. We’re looking at 3,500,000 Muslims in the United States.

Okay. 3,500,000 Muslims, not terrorists. Muslims. Okay. Go for it.

I guess it depends who you ask. But Right. Yeah. No. I would say 3,500,000 Muslims, in the United States.

And so if you were to, argue that 10% of those folks were were terrorists, then, yeah, I could understand the mass hysteria about, Muslim terrorists because it would be an astronomical number. But the bottom line is what we have is a handful of Americans engaging in these activities. A handful. Okay. So give me some numbers.

Well, we just went over the ones from the the last, week, and then we talked about a couple others that have happened in the last few years. But, I mean, let’s let’s assume I’m gonna go big here and say, let’s say 35. Let’s say we have 35 people that have engaged in terrorist activity from the United States that are Muslim. What would that be? Point0001 percent Of Muslims.

In America. That are terrorist. Of the 3.5000000 Muslims, it would be the point 00001%. Wow. And if we were just to look at this idea of teenagers leaving and engaging and joining ISIS, I mean, that is obviously concerning especially for the parents.

No doubt about it. But let’s put it in context. You know, we have 3 teenage girls and, what was the other American? The teenage boy out of Chicago. So we have 4.

Right. So far, I’m not saying there won’t be more, but we have 4. Right. That kinda reminded me of the, there was this chart I saw on Facebook that kinda cracked me up, but it was, like, about the Ebola outbreak in the US. I love the the term even outbreak.

Right. It was it was, like, 1, at the time, it was, like, one person. And, it it was just they basically drew these little, you know, stick figures, and there was, like, you know, 300,000,000 of them. And so you just had to continually scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll. I mean, like, it was literally, like, maybe, like, minutes and minutes of, like, scrolling till the finally you got to the one red stick figure.

It’s like, that’s that’s what’s really going on. That’s the outbreak. Yeah. And so you have here with, with these these these terrorists, so called terrorists in the United States, if it is 35 out of 300 and some 1000000 people and out of 30, what did you say? 30 33,500,000.

Now that that’s a and that’s a conservative statistic. Most of the people that are trying to convince everyone that there’s, terrorists possibly living next door to you, they’re using statistics of like 7000000, 9000000 Muslims living in America. Even those statistics are inflated. And I mean, realistically, we’ve had 4 people, teenagers, right, be, convinced online that they should be a part of ISIS. Now that’s concerning those 4 and that could easily become more.

But to make it out to be this huge issue of homegrown terrorism, I think, is a bit of a stretch. Right. We kind of came into this story because, the the same friend that I had talked to about ISIS and the bullet and sharing the gospel. And he had kind of mentioned that, you know, because I kinda explained how much the FBI really does know. I mean, like, you know, like, we kinda try to laugh at our government and and say they’re bumbling, you know.

But but the fact of the matter is there’s a lot of people on Homeland Security, that are looking at these guys that are terrorist threats. And so that led us in our conversation to the next, thought, which is, you know, what about the guys that aren’t on terrorist watch list that are just under the radar and they convert to Islam, kinda like what we’re seeing in these stories that we brought up, and then show up and do some crazy, you know, attack. That’d be like the guy in the in the I think what is it? A chicken factory. He was fired and went back and decapitated a woman in Oklahoma.

Right. That’s a good example there. So what do you do with that? Are we gonna see more of of that going on? And I think, you know, it’s really hard because, Howard, we’re in the first time, I think this generation is seeing acts of violence all over the world, all happening at once and it’s really easy to believe that we are, like, the wheels are just coming off.

So you’re saying that because, you know, in the United States, we’re so sheltered from that kind of thing? No. No. No. No.

I’m saying that we are way overexposed to that sort of thing. Oh, right. Because we’re able to see basically the entire world and everything that’s happening all at once because of media, because There you go. Of Internet, because of globalization. So, I think if you were to just try this, if you’re listening try this, of course if you try it, you’re listening.

Find somebody and just ask them. If you were to say, society today, global society is, 10 being the most violent society the world’s ever seen, 10 being the most violent society history’s ever seen, and one being the most peaceful society history has ever seen, what do you think it is? I I have a feeling that most people are gonna say, oh man, we’re up there 8, 9, maybe 10. This I mean, the world is coming off. The the wheels are coming off.

The world is falling apart. Everything is in chaos. There’s death. There’s murder everywhere. We’ve got ISIS.

We’ve got Al Qaeda, we’ve got Hezbollah, we’ve got Hamas, we’ve got, Boko Haram, we’ve got all of these groups and oh my goodness and it’s nonsense. Yeah, I I don’t know if we even It it almost becomes like this subliminal thing because you know I to be honest with you when watch Fox News or CNN, I kinda get a headache. Because, like, there’s so much information coming, and it’s all terrorizing as far as their their, their their tempo and the the way they’re speaking. It’s always urgent and and I feel like Howard’s being terrorized by the news. And it’s always, like, so worrisome.

And and and then and when it’s just even if if it’s just about a politics between candidates, there’s always this shouting and yelling, and I’m just like, I I can’t handle this. This is way too much. So yeah, I mean, I get what you’re saying. I think people can oftentimes when they it’s you know, especially when they watch the news. And then, of course, the news even the newspapers, like, do people read those anymore?

But the the, like, the headlines, these gigantic Ebola, you know, outbreak in the US and yeah. I mean, I I see what you’re saying. I think, yeah, I would agree probably if this. But I’m sure there are some of you out there thinking, what do you mean nonsense? It’s not nonsense.

The world is falling apart. The the wheels are coming off. Those are real things. And and you’re right. They are real things.

There are serious threats around the globe. But let’s take it in the context of global history. I think a lot of I was just gonna say Rome. Rome. Syria.

Not just Rome. Let’s let’s let’s consider, pre modern society. Let’s consider tribal societies Right. Where, most, archaeologists, most, anthropologists would say that the the chances of you dying at the hands of a violent death by by another man are, like, 15%. And you might think well that’s not that high.

That’s that’s extremely high especially when you consider your chances today of dying at the hands of another man. I’m talking globally not just you as an American, globally the chances of a human dying at the hands of another human are less than 1%. That’s encouraging. It’s way encouraging and it should give us a context for how we watch these things and and and how we see. Is the world really coming apart at the seams?

Are the wheels really coming off? Is it as bad as we actually, say that it is or believe that it is? And I say no. Right. And, you know, I I I tend to feel like where we’re going at with with whenever we bring up media or anything that’s kind of inflammatory.

It’s the idea that we’re not interested in fueling that panic because I don’t think that’s actually good for anybody, you know. And, just the idea. Right? I mean No. Anything that anything that starts with fear, I would say, okay, take a step back, ask yourself, what am I afraid of?

Do I have all of the facts? Have I really considered legitimate? Right? Let me let me look at it, as as a whole, not just this one incident and then try to make an entire you know what it is? I’ve I’ve got it.

I was, Bring bring the noise. I don’t know what to call it. Oh. No. No.

Okay. Wait for it. Chicken little history. Or The sky is falling. The sky is falling.

Chicken little history. Like, we we actually believe everything is falling apart right before our very eyes. And you know what? It’s because we, as as probably the first generation, can see everywhere the world is falling apart right before our very eyes. Right.

We have eyes everywhere. The reality is this is probably, I’m saying probably, I don’t wanna say it is even though I think it probably is, I think this is probably the most at peace the world has ever been. Right. That’s insane to think about because we don’t feel that way. Right.

Did you did you pull up some, like, statistic on on how crime is just continually dropping Yeah. In the US. Crime is on its way down and globally, not just in the US. Now, obviously, if you’re living in Syria, it certainly doesn’t feel that way. And because of how much we watch the news, it sometimes feels like we’re living in Syria.

If you’re living in Darfur, it doesn’t feel that way. If you’re living in say the Congo, it doesn’t feel that way. But you got to have the context of global history. We see decapitations, we see, people being tortured and we’re appalled But go back a few 100 years. Go back a 1000 years, and this was entertainment.

Right. And so there’s gather around the guillotine as someone’s being beheaded. Yeah. And so we have to we have to completely look at it in the context of global history and say, hey. You know, let’s not assume that our world is the world.

Right. Right? There was a world before. You know, there’s a history. God has been at work from the very beginning, and we don’t need to be these sort of chicken little historians or chicken little theologians that walk around thinking the world is falling apart, especially if it isn’t.

Right. And I think the danger is the reactionism, the reactional, mindset where everybody and this reminded me of 911 when George Bush, had basically declared war, in response because they felt like something had to be done. They didn’t have the facts. They didn’t have everything together, but something had to be done. And that’s very reactionary.

That I I really believe that that gives power to the others that have done that to us. So, like, you have ISIS attacking us. Right? So our natural response is to attack them. It it kind of forces our hand when we are reactionary rather than taking things aside and saying, okay.

How do we respond? How do we educate our people? How do we use rational thinking, logic? How do we bring all of these things in to make the best decision for the long term? Because, really, what happened to Iraq after we invaded?

Now that we’ve let it go and, you know, we’ve left, you know, like, ISIS comes in. It’s like this vacuum. Right. Exactly. And so has it been the best decisions have we been making?

And I’m not saying that we need to get into politics on this show. That’s not what we’re talking about. But just the idea that we need to be rational, that we need to be at peace. We need to have common sense. That we need to make good decisions, not reactionary decisions, but good decisions on their own.

I’ll I’ll give you an example of reactionary, and that’s Anders Breivik, right, in Norway. Mhmm. 77 77 people killed in a single day Wow. Trying to protect Norway from Islamization. That’s not what we want.

And he’s doing all of this according to Anders Breivik in the name of Jesus. That’s so disturbing. Right. It’s a new crusade. You know, and I I think that we have to be so careful to, make sure that we don’t even for a second begin to think in those terms.

That is a scary thought that this man believed wholeheartedly that he was, working out the will of God through through the death of these, teenagers. 77 teenagers. Now what’s what’s just to give it context, that’s way more people, like, since 911. We think about how many people have died at the hands of Islamic extremists. It isn’t 77.

Since 911, I mean, we’re, I don’t even know the numbers off the hand, but I know it’s not 77. We’ve got, a couple of Fort Hood. What was the the Fort Hood numbers? I can’t I don’t have exact I think it was 13. 13 killed.

That’s right. 13.13 killed at Fort Hood. Faisal Shahazad, actually, his bomb didn’t even go off. Man, I’m just trying to think of all the the terrorist activity but it’s a it’s a handful, really. And when we look at the statistics, I think we’ll be surprised that, terrorist activity is actually on its way down in the United States.

It kinda had a little bit of a spike after 911 and then it started to decline. And so on average, it’s less than 20, less than 20 people are arrested and we’ll put all the sources for this. This is out of a research project that was done at Duke University. Less than 20 people are arrested on average for links with terrorism. And I don’t even mean they’re committing terrorist acts for links with terrorism, less than 20 per year.

Wow. That doesn’t seem like that way on the media. No. Because we think, well, 10% of Muslims are terrorists, which so bizarre that we just kinda take that hook, line, and sinker. We’ve got, you know, almost 10,000,000 in the United States also not true but we take it hook line and sinker and therefore, man, they’re everywhere.

And so you can imagine. I get it. I get it why people walk around so afraid, but I’m telling you as we look at the media, yes, there was 4 people this week, that were going to engage in terrorist acts. They are angry. They are looking for identity and they did find a place to fit in an Islamic terrorist group but that is 0.000.

Actually, gotta add a 5th 0, 1 percent of the Muslim population. Right. And you had said something that we were talking about before the show about, them finding a place and how compelling that was. And we’ve talked about this on the earlier show, but just basically, what do you think that is such a draw, I guess, for them to because I mean, because really, you’re thinking how if you just think about it, how much of a sacrifice it is to leave your family. Right, to go to a brand new place, to join up with people you don’t really even know, and to fight to lay down your life on, you know, on their beliefs.

So Well, I mean, a lot of these these, especially the teenagers, they’re angry, but that doesn’t make you a terrorist. I mean, almost all Howard, you work with a lot of youth. A lot of teenagers are angry. Right. And they’re looking for a way to To fit, a place to belong, a place to separate from I’m no longer my parents’ kid.

I wanna be my own person. And so And they wanna and they wanna believe in something. I think that’s this generation. Something to believe in. They wanna believe in something that’s beyond themselves.

Because I think they do find that, at least the more, thinking or a more aware or self aware these students are, they’re finding that the world is offering really shallow things, I think. You know, like, it’s no longer the world of Britney Spears and and pop culture and, you know, like even it’s it’s even hipster to be aware of social issues and what’s going on in in the world. So, you know, like, I I can see this this shift with with young people. But at the same time, I I, you know, I we’re seeing that it’s leading to some extremism, you know. Not not only that, but I think we’re actually perpetuating the problem How so?

With media, with with, these sort of overarching sweeping generalized statements about Muslims and immigrants. Right. They simplify it to the point where it’s like, this is wrong. This is right. And it’s not really this robust, you know, thought.

It’s really it’s much more complicated than than what we portray it as. But the media just kind of makes these sweeping statements that That that’s right. And we know, researchers have, they’ve looked at sort of the the psychological things that go on with, an immigrant and especially when their, their ethnic identity or their religious identity has any kind of hostility towards it whether it’s real or perceived and I would say in this case, it’s quite real. Right. So people that have a real or perceived hostility from the host society, the place where they’ve immigrated about their ethnicity or even their religion, they start to really either they they take one of 2 routes.

1, they completely deny or downplay, their own ethnic or religious identity Right. So that they can kinda fit. Right. They they become enculturated. That’s their goal.

Right. And then you have the other guys that are, they might actually begin to assert pride in their cultural group. They might, assert pride in their, religious identity as a way of dealing with this, hostility. Right. So They they actually become more Muslim than they were before they got here.

They become more, you know, whether it’s a national identity, Pakistani or more of an ethnic identity whether it’s Pashtun or some other ethnic group. So they become a a more of what they were before they even arrived to the United States. Right. So they they consciously separate themselves from the host country. Right.

They have no no idea or or desire to, become like everyone else. And so what ends up happening, the pressure that they feel from the host society according to this particular research, document, it says that the pressure to assimilate and give up one sense of ethnicity, it may actually result in anger, depression, and in some cases violence. There’s the word. So it doesn’t matter if you’re, Hispanic immigrant, a South Asian immigrant, a Korean immigrant, does not matter. If you have that overwhelming sense of a hostility or a perceived hostility, it puts you into a really tough spot and I think that we perpetuate this by, forcing Muslims to kinda choose sides.

Like, hey, you’re Muslim. That means this. And it’s oversimplified and it actually ends up creating a bigger problem. The tough thing is it’s a societal thing, though. Right?

I mean, we have, as a people, we have responsibilities. And we’ve, I think, dropped the ball kinda like, when, last week when we’re talking about Dave Cash and when he was sharing about how Americans have kinda lost that deep sense of hospitality. You know, that’s a societal thing. And so here, you know, we’re treating, Muslim immigrants a certain way. Right?

Out of fear, out of reactionism. It kinda reminds me of the Japanese concentration, camps in the US during World War 2, after Pearl Harbor. Mhmm. You know, it became this very much of your Japanese, you know, your anti American, when lot of these Japanese have just grown up, in the US were born and, you know, maybe a few generations. And so you have you have Muslims that kinda fallen that fit into that bill or or or have a real desire to connect with American values and or consider themselves Americans or are Americans themselves, but are still being, you know, judged and I I mean harassed.

Harassed. Yeah. I mean, that’s the bottom line. If it’s it’s if you oh, I saw I I’ve experienced this myself with, Muslim friends that I have where I’ve thought, you know what? I’m going to your school and I’m gonna talk to your teacher because that’s not right.

Where they have experienced, com you know, poor treatment because they’re Muslim, even just joking. And one one teacher even joked to a young Muslim girl that, my wife is really good friends with, she is 16 at the time, joked, with her on the death of Bin Laden and she thought, I don’t even know anything about Bin Laden. I don’t know why he’s joking with me about this stuff. And I thought, well, there you go. That’s a good way to, really kinda perpetuate a problem of young teenagers wanting to fit somewhere.

There she is trying to fit in an American high school and here is a teacher actually making jokes, cracking jokes about her and Bin Laden. That, in my mind, just doesn’t make any sense. Horrifying. Yeah. It happens.

That’s horrifying. And and I feel like it happens way more than than anyone ever would think about. I I, you know, I understand, like, Bill Maher and those guys, you know, that are, chomping at the bid and then Ben Affleck saying, you know, like, you know, these liberals are just all for, or I mean, Bill Maher saying the liberals are too soft on Muslims. But I I don’t think that this kind of prejudice or prejudice is is coming to the forefront. I don’t think people realize how difficult it is, to be a Muslim in our country that have no association with terrorism, that have no desire.

They just wanna eat sandwiches. There you go. Right? But at the same time, is is being pushed in this boat. And I can see how a 16 year old kid who’s who you know, you remember what it was like being 16.

There’s a lot of term it’s a tumultuous time where you’re trying to figure out who you are, what it is to be a man, who it is, what what it is that you believe, and how you’re gonna live your life, and the fears and the hopes. And then all of a sudden you get hit by ISIS propaganda. Then all of a sudden you’re a bride or you’re a soldier that’s trying to get somehow to Syria or to Iraq to to help and fight because that’s the only place that you’ve actually felt like you belonged and could do something bigger than yourself. Because you’re jaded. You’ve you’ve lost hope and It’s and I think, you know, for us, we have to realize that, Muslims, they’re just people.

They have the same heart as you and I. They’re just people who happen to be Muslim. We have to stop viewing them through, this sort of religious identity that their religion is everything about them. That’s way oversimplified. We need to actually look at them as people who happen to be Muslim and allow them to define themselves.

Right. Yeah. There there was a recent, it’s not too recent anymore. I think it was, 2011 where they did a, survey of Muslim Americans and I found this fascinating because recent polls are saying that, the amount of Americans that are angry with the US government, they’re, like, at an all time high. I mean, republican, democrat, it’s just at an all time high.

In 2011, it was high as well. But nowadays, it’s it’s at the highest that it’s been in a while. But this particular, survey, Muslims that were, angry with the US government, angry with the US government was lower than the general public. What? Yeah.

The general public was more angry with the US government than the Muslims were that are living in the United States. The satisfaction of Muslims living in the United States where they say that they are, satisfied with the way things are going in the United States, 56 percent and the satisfaction of the general public was 23%. So if we’re gonna just look at, and base it because I think, he the early Glenn Beck was making his comments about terrorism saying, well, those who are angry with the government. According to recent polls, we got a lot more terrorists than he realizes. Right.

They’re just not Muslim. Right. That’s a whole another problem. Truth about Americans. Just kidding.

No. It’s it is it’s something to consider though because I think most Muslims are incredibly satisfied with their life here in the United States. They feel like they’re really blessed to be here, and they’re happy, and they feel like the government that they have here is, a very good government. And it’s a lot of it’s because of where they’ve come from. Right.

They’ve experienced the the horse. Right? What would be awesome though is if they experienced how we as Americans can be. You know, I think I hands down. I think American America is one of the most generous countries ever.

Any any situation happens. If you look at Haiti, where tens and tens tens of thousands 100 of thousands of volunteers come and help over the course of the the next years. You know, Katrina, hurricane Katrina, that is, you know, and and all of the the any kind of thing that has happened, America just jumps in and helps, and foreign aid and and on and on as the general population of the people. But we have to stop thinking in terms of, just bunching these people together and making them all out to be the same. America has this been this amazing melting pot of people where we be we’re becoming more and more multicultural.

We can’t stand together if we are continually fighting amongst ourselves. We learned that from Islam, actually, from monks Muslims. That’s right. Yeah. Yeah.

On on a on a more positive note, in that same survey, 48% of Muslims said that they felt like they had a friendly response from Americans since they have come here as immigrants. So that was that was good. That’s so awesome. Let’s let’s hope that the Christian church, it’s much much higher than that. But just let me run through a couple of these stats before we go to our next section.

Okay. You guys will find this really interesting. What percentage of Muslims recycle? What? 75% as opposed to other Americans 76%.

Wait. Wait. Wait. Wait. No.

This is really in the survey. Okay. Alright. Percentage of TV watchers. Aaron?

50%. 58%. The average Americans, 62%. I didn’t know it was that low. Yeah.

I would have thought higher. I guess it’s Internet TV. It’s changed everything. Regular use of social Alright. Here we go.

Regular use of social networking. Let’s go with the Muslim population, Howard. 85. 57%. Oh, man.

Now this is a little older though. 2011. So I’m assuming it’s grown. And, Americans 44%. What?

Yeah. Alright. Regularly watch pro sports. 25%. 48% and Americans 47.

They’re way more into the NFL than we are. 1%. Wait. How do you know it’s the NFL? I’m sorry.

I used the word they. They they give us pro sports. You know, like It’s the only pro sport on in America. I mean, really. Because I know Koreans, like, we are wild about archery.

You saw that in Olympics. Oh my goodness. Alright. Display the American flag. Oh.

What percentage of Muslims display the American flag? I’m gonna say 75%. 44%. Okay. That’s that’s pretty weird.

Percentage of Americans that display the flag. This is a trick, isn’t it? No. 59%. Oh.

What does that mean, display, like, on their front porch? I think so. I maybe a bumper sticker would count. I don’t know. Oh, bumper sticker.

Clothes. I I think it’s probably I’d have to look at the the question the way it was worded. Pew is really good about giving their their questionnaires and how they ask. Alright. And so our final one.

Are you ready? Percentage of Muslims that regularly play video games. 25%. 18%. Oh.

And the general American public, 19%. Are you serious? Gamers only 19%? 19%. I They’re all in my youth group.

I’m pretty sure. You’re Asian. All 19%. Those of you that didn’t know, Howard is Asian. I am Asian.

Can’t you hear it in my voice? So we’ve got 18 19 percent. And the point is, they’re not so different. Come on, people. They’re just they’re people that happen to be Muslim and we have to stop defining everything they do based on their religion.

And you can learn a lot from just asking people about themselves. So, anyway, I thought that that, survey was really really informative. And fun. And fun. And fun.

Alright. So our next segment is boom goes the dynamite. Boom goes the dynamite. And, the person that gets that this week is representative Joe Wilson. Tell us what he said, Trevor.

South Carolina. Representative Joe Wilson. You didn’t have to say that because we’re from South Carolina, but now okay. Now everyone knows. No.

They know. I mean, they’re gonna look it up. I mean, I don’t the exact quote, I don’t have it in front of me. How do you have an go with the go with the exact quote. Do you want me to do it with a southern accent?

Do you have a good southern accent? Of course, I do. Tell you what. I am Asian, but I was grown in I was raised in the south. That’s that’s that’s not quite southern.

With the southern, you got especially if you’re in politics, you gotta have, like, little bit of my lashes falling out of your mouth. Right. That’s the old country. Old Southern. Yeah.

Southern. Actually, I am from the South, but I don’t have a Southern Florida. Florida. That’s not the south. That’s the south.

I’m from the Panhandle. No. No. No. No.

That’s New Jersey. Panhandle. That’s New South. That’s New Jersey imported down to the south. Alright.

Give it to us. What does he have? Give us the boom goes the dynamite. Alright. So basically, here it is.

Okay. Well, part of their creed, they’re talking about ISIS. No. No. He’s talking about Hamas.

Oh, Hamas. You’re right. Thank you. Would be to bring persons who have Ebola into our country. So, he he believes that part of their terrorist attack would be to take people that are infected with Ebola and send them through Mexico into our nation.

He he actually this is, in my mind, the ultimate boom goes the dynamite because it’s the trifecta. He brings up Hamas. So he’s talking about Hamas and Israel. Right. So he’s got Israel in there.

He’s talking about Muslims because Hamas is a Muslim, group. 2. And then he brings up oh, man. He’s got 4. Brings up Ebola, which is, like, number 4 or 3 there.

And then with number 4, he brings up the border. Immigration. Immigration. This is the ultimate sort of, quad I don’t know what you would call that. It’s the trifecta plus 1.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. So he’s talking about, Hamas going over and, I guess, volunteering without, the hazmat suits and then willingly infecting themselves. It just sounds I I get where he’s coming from.

He’s saying that they’re willing to die and this and that, but I think he’s really, honestly, I I think he maybe he forgot the name of the group that he was gonna say and he just threw out one that came to his mind, Hamas. Because Hamas is primarily Palestinian and they’re fighting for land in Israel. I’m not so sure. They’re not focused. Yeah.

So they got their own thing going on. But then, infecting themselves with Ebola, coming through the south through, Mexico. Man, he kinda hit on everything there and so it was, an ultimate really just political, move. Right. He drank the Kool Aid of the media.

So Or as, Shepherd says, Shepherd Smith. Yeah. We almost forgot about that. No. Because he’s our, seize the day, our hard copy DM award.

But, he I love that he has this voice reason, and he calls out that kind of behavior from the media. Tell us tell us kinda give us a brief overview of what He calls it hysterical voices on the media. Because irresponsible. Yeah. Irresponsible reporting hysterical voices essentially says, I’ll just be summarizing here, but you need to we’ll put the video in the show notes and you can go and watch it yourself.

But what he says is, hey. There’s an election coming up. Everybody has an agenda here. And so the the, party that’s in power has to let you know that they’re protecting you. The party that’s not in power has to show you how the party in power is not protecting you.

And Ebola has become the political pawn of the day and just calls everybody out. I was shocked. Right. He did a great job too. He was real real straight, and he was just basically saying, hey, this is not what it seems.

Yeah. He said there’s no nonsense here. There is no Ebola outbreak, and he goes through and gives the facts about Ebola, tells everybody to calm down, don’t be hysterical, don’t pay attention to the hysterical voices on the media, and, I was really encouraged by that. Yeah. And then and then you got Joe Wilson.

Right. He didn’t get the memo. It’s everybody. It’s everything. We’re we’re all gonna die.

I mean, like, you know Mass hysteria. Right. And, and he’s he represents South Carolina. I’m sorry. Well South Carolina.

Yeah. Well, anyway, it was, the reason he gets the and I’m not saying that we agree or disagree with anybody that we put on on the show for the carpet DM award or the boom goes to the dynamite. Maybe it’s just a bad moment for one person or a really good moment for another person. I don’t know what Shepherd Smith has said in the past about Islam. I’m sure he’s had.

He may be a boom goes to dynamite moment here later in the show. I don’t know. We do not support everything he says. Right. But that moment, we were encouraged.

By speaking out against the the mass hysteria and using Ebola as a pawn in a political chess match. Right. And we kinda tried to do that on the show too. You know, of course, our tagline, you know, we wanna educate people beyond the media. We don’t want them just to swallow it, you know, wholesale.

And so, it was kind of neat to hear him talk about Ebola that way. And of course with our boom goes the dynamite, you know, it kind of just works perfectly because, normally we really wouldn’t probably talk about Ebola that much unless that did happen. Whatever Joe Wilson said did happen. I’m not saying it’s going to nor do I think it’s likely, but we wouldn’t talk about Ebola and just kinda give us an opportunity to do that. Well, you know, we could have because there are some Muslims out there that are condemning Ebola because they said they felt like everybody’s They were gonna get blamed for Ebola.

So there was, like, a Muslim group. It was kind of like a joke. They came out and said, we better condemn Ebola before we get accused of not speaking out against Ebola. So Right. Anyway That’s awesome.

But yeah. So let’s go with our, our resource of the week. I wanna talk to you guys about a, a resource of the week. I wanna talk to you guys about a, a book that came out, it was 2011, and this was kinda what got me thinking about the the world in light of history, not just looking at what’s happening in the media and assuming that the wheels are coming off. So, Steven Pinker, psychologist professor at Harvard has, written a book, The Better Angels of Our Nature, Why Violence Has Declined.

Now I’m gonna just say right off the bat, obviously, I don’t agree with everything Steven Pinker has to say. He, he’s not a believer. He’s pretty critical of, Christian beliefs in the bible and talks about the violence of the bible, I think in a very sort of, on a very biased way. But his statistics regarding, violence in culture and violence in light of, the 21st century is phenomenal and very interesting and you have to consider what he’s saying and say, maybe maybe the world isn’t as bad as, as I thought it was. That’s I’ve never even heard of this book.

What did you hear about this guy? Well, he has a TED Talk as well. Oh. Those those of you that don’t like to read, that’s me. Right.

And he’s working on his PhD right now. That’s why it’s gonna take a long time to finish. So But TED Talks, yeah, you’re right. That’s a great alternative for reading. Go.

You know, would it be wrong if I did my whole PhD on TED Talk videos? Would it be it depends on the school. I don’t know if I’d graduate. I’d have to talk to my advisor about that. But anyway, he has a TED Talk.

Steven Pinker. He’s also been on NPR a few times. He’s got a few A 2 time Pulitzer prize winner. Oh, finalist. I’m sorry.

Final Yeah. And, you know, he’s from Harvard, so I think he’s been vetted. Right. And he has awesome hair. He does he does large, curly, frolish locks or locks of hair.

But, anyway, check out the TED Talk. Check out his book if you, if you have time. I think it will be encouraging because the bottom line, as believers, we should be the first and foremost people to recognize when things are not bad. We should be looking for opportunities to see where God is moving. We should be looking for opportunities to see, the image of God in humanity and I fear that we have lost that.

Yeah, that’s tough. I don’t know. I just feel like in the media. It’s it’s really hard to to keep that face, so I think what you’re right. I think we have to be extremely intentional.

You know, without losing hope without, because I don’t I don’t think that, Christ brought left us on earth at this time to, to to make people scared, but to actually be bringers of hope. Right? Absolutely. And that’s kind of different than what we’ve, we’ve been known as as Christians over the time of history. Yeah.

I I’m trying to think of the exact quote that CS Lewis, talks about. It’s in mere Christianity, but he says, Here it is. So, so let’s suppose one reads a story of filthy atrocities in the paper then suppose that something turns up suggesting that the story might not quite be true or not quite so bad as it was made out. Is one’s first feeling? Thank god Even they aren’t quite as bad as that.

Or is it a feeling of disappointment and even determination to cling to the first story for sheer pleasure of thinking your enemies are as bad as possible. And I think that that concerns me. And I think, c s Lewis, if you saw what we were doing today and the way that we were viewing the world and the way that we were looking at Muslims, I think that this quote would ring true true today more than than ever before. And and think about the context of when mere Christianity is coming out and these radio broadcast during the war. And what he goes on to say is, if the second is true, in other words, if you think, you’re disappointed that you found out your enemies aren’t as wicked as you thought they were.

If the second, then it is. I am afraid the first you are in the first step of a process which if followed to the end will make us into devils. You see, one is the beginning to wish that black was a little blacker. If we give that wish its head, later we shall wish to see gray as black And then to see white itself as black. Finally, we shall insist on seeing everything.

God and our friends and ourselves included as bad and not be able to stop doing it. We shall be fixed forever in a universe of pure hatred. Wow. That’s that’s that speaks a lot to, I think, where we are today. We need to be careful.

We need to be, we need to be the kind of people that when somebody says, look, the world is falling apart at the seams. The wheels are coming off. We need to be the people that say, it’s not as bad as you say. God is still at work. Right.

And it’s not the end. And it’s not the end. We need to stop with the chicken little history, Chicken Little theology. I don’t know what we’re gonna call it, but I like Chicken Little. It is.

It’s kinda cute. It reminds me of, like, Bugs Bunny cartoons. No. No. Not Bugs Bunny.

Looney Toons cartoons when I was a kid. That was Chicken Little. Right? No. Chicken Little is when the sky is falling.

The moon Yeah. But I think I think he was on there. Oh, yeah. I don’t know about that. No.

That’s the, boghorn leghorn. Yeah. The big rooster, but there’s a chicken little something in there. Oh, never mind. Maybe this is a show.

Howard’s completely distracted. I was just thinking it was I’m out. He checked out after CS Lewis quote. He had, like, a little moment. I heard him snapping in the corner, like, oh.

We we anytime there’s good good a good thought, we snap our fingers. So if you hear that Yeah. It’s like a it’s like a golf clap. It’s like the golf clap. That’s right.

You gotta picture somebody in a in a poetry setting reading c s lewis and going, nice. Right. So anyway, that’s our show for today. Let’s not look for gray and try to make it black. Let’s not, be overwhelmed with the idea that the world is falling apart.

Let’s be truthful about what’s really going on in the world and but let’s have hope. Right. And let’s bring hope to others. Amen. And if you like the show, we’d love to hear about it.

Any comments, questions? Questions and answers. We can give questions or well, we can give answers. I don’t know. We might not be able to give answers or questions.

We might just ramble on. Yeah. Well, we’re gonna try our best. Is that what that’s what Trevor’s saying. We’re gonna try our best.

Yeah. Send in your questions. Send in your comments, even if they’re critical. If we like critical comments as well, we need to start a whole section that says why I think you’re wrong, Howard and Trevor. Right.

And I will be good. And we will read it and enjoy it. If you guys get personal though, that’s kinda messed up. Like, if you say something against Asians, come on, guys. Oh, that’s messed up.

Or if you say something against Howard’s car, that fuchsia color that he’s not It’s periwinkle. Periwinkle. I’m pretty secure myself, so Alright. Well, yeah. Be sure to, tune in again and be sure to spread the word, Truth About Muslims podcast.

Thanks for listening.