Here starts the auto-generated transcription of ISIS and the True Nature of Islam (Pilot):
Once again, Muslim terrorists A terrorist. Communist and illegal extremists. These random justice brutal endeavors. Newsflash America. These Muslim extremists are, are alive and well.They are not dead, and their video is not gratuitous, and it certainly is not irrelevant. It is a warning. Welcome to the truth about Muslims podcast, the official podcast of the Swimmer Center For Muslim Studies, where we help to educate you beyond the media. Here are your hosts, Howard and Trevor. This week’s show is brought to you by Columbia International University, University, educating people from a biblical worldview to impact the nations with the message of Christ.
And as always, the Zwemer Center For Muslim Studies at CIU. The Zwemer Center has been educating the church about Islam since 1979. Pretty much they’ve been talking about Muslims before it was cool. Definitely. That’s been a long time.
30 years? 30 years. Alright. Alright. It’s been a crazy week.
Howard, I, I understand you had an encounter with a Muslim this week. Yeah. Yeah. I did. My car, actually broke down.
And, what Trevor is your friend. Right? He’s he’s he’s been a friend for a long time, a friend of the family? Well, crazy thing is week before, Howard says to me, hey. My car seems to be, leaking some oil.
What do you think about that? Should I, get it looked at? And I I kinda forgot to look at it before I left and the next thing I know I get a phone call and Howard says, hey, man. I’m broken down on the interstate. What should I do here?
Yeah. And then then you called, mister Khan and, I mean, he was awesome. He he towed away my car and, you know, didn’t charge me anything. And, apparently, he, he has this business where he gets rid of cars. He, you know, junks them or tries to fix them and resell them or whatnot.
But, so Trevor basically says, hey. You need to go talk to this guy and, you know, talk about what you’re gonna do with the car. So I, you know, I called him up. I was, like, coming over to to this guy’s house, mister Khan’s house, at 9:30 at night. And I I text Trevor, and I’m like, hey, man.
You wanna come and, you know, hang out with us? You know? Because I think we’re probably gonna have tea and all that good stuff. And, Trevor’s like, no. You got this.
He’s he’s a great guy. I’m I’m pretty sure my response was, don’t worry. He’s Muslim. He’s hospitable. Yeah.
So I’m like I don’t think anything of it. I’m like okay Trevor goes to bed early so I drive over to his house come in of course they serve me tea is awesome we had a great talk and it went on And on. And on. And I find myself, like, I have to figure out how to leave politely because he’s not stopping. We just kept talking about everything.
I always tell people that if you’re really interested in reaching out to Muslims with the message of Christ, just get ready for intense community because if you really do pour into the Muslim community, you’re gonna have really good friends and it becomes intense because you see each other all the time. They’re very communal. Yes. And that’s what I kinda figured out, and it was awesome. Actually, it was a great experience because, now even though we only met really once, I feel like I’m, like, best friends with the guy.
Like, anytime I see him, I’m like, hey. How are you doing? You know? And we just talk about anything. So, yeah, I mean, it was it was a great experience.
And and he he took care of my car. So that was Yeah. I Howard, I noticed you got a new car. That’s right. It’s very masculine.
If I could just describe it to you right now for all you listeners out there, it is a periwinkle blue. Kinda fuchsia, actually. Yeah. It’s it’s this blue with a purplish tint. Feeling a little awkward trying to put, like, masculine hunting stickers on the outside just so people don’t get the wrong idea about me.
So He’s actually got a a a set of bike racks on the top. I don’t think he even rides a bike. Howard, do you have a bike? Those those are kayak racks. Yeah.
That’s that’s manly. That’s still really manly. But my wheels, they’re so tiny. I asked how much it would cost to get my wheels fixed, and they were, like, you know, like, 50¢. I mean, it really just wasn’t much.
They’re like, we got matchbox wheels for your for your car. So What’s great is, my wife, when he pulls up, she says, oh, is that Howard’s new car? I said, yeah. What do you think? She said, it’s so cute.
And I was like No. That’s not. It is. That’s nothing a man wants to hear about his ride. Anyway, it was a good experience.
Howard got to meet one of my Muslim friends, and, my Muslim friend got to meet Howard. Good times. And, just a great opportunity for, you know, my my Muslim friend to realize that that there are other Christians out there that are that are kind like Howard. Yeah. Yeah.
And, actually, we had a lot in common just to be able to talk about things. He has kids. You know? He has the same worries that everybody else does. So it was really neat to kind of, to remind myself, you know, that, even though they might come from a different religion or even a a different nationality, you know, they’re they’re people too.
And, we had a lot we had a lot of fun, and the tea was awesome. What’s funny is last Friday, I was at the, the local mosque here, and I was leaving early because I had to go pick up my son from school. And as I’m leaving, I see mister Khan in the parking lot. I’m leaving, and he’s walking in. And, he says, where are you going?
Where are you going? I said, oh, I’ve gotta go, pick up Benjamin. And he says, did you eat? And I said, no. They just started serving, and and it’s a really long line, so I I’ve just gotta go.
And so he comes flying in there and immediately goes to to serving the food and, like, walks me right up to the front, and I’m just like, oh my goodness. And my my philosophy is sorta like when you cut in front of a bunch of people, you never look back. That’s right. Just don’t look back because you never look back. There’s a cutter.
I just wanna let everyone know this has got a cutter. But here’s the funny thing. In in the mosque, it’s of like, well, of course, he’s going to the front. He’s our guest. And I’m just thinking I feel the daggers.
I feel the daggers. Don’t look back. And mister Khan’s like, it’s okay. He’s a guest. He’s a guest.
Bring him to the front. But I bet there were no daggers. Right? There might have been some. I don’t know.
I didn’t look back. I’m serious. I just looked at the footage. Long enough, they’re like, wait a minute. We don’t do that here.
He is definitely cutting. We have formed a line. Right. You belong to the line. I don’t know how many times, Howard, you’ve traveled overseas, and you’re just like, guys, seriously, can we just form a line?
Oh my gosh. Something something about Asia and the lack of the line for most Americans is just too much. When I was in India, man, you just couldn’t help but laugh because the the, airline, you know, worker, the attendant or whatever, she would be like, please everybody form a queue. Right? And these they were just like, what?
I mean, they didn’t even think. They just, like, all just gathered around the desk, like, 5 rows deep. Just people just, like, bombarding her with questions and yelling. And then, and I was just like, man, this is, this is culture shock, man. And then Howard looks over, and I’m wrestling over the top of, like, 7 people to get to the front of that.
That’s right. I’m like, go get him, Trevor. He’s a cutter. He’s a cutter. Just never look back.
Principle for the day, when you cut, never look back. That’s right. It’ll it’ll it’ll take care of you in the end. Alright. So this week’s podcast, we’re gonna be talking about the threat of ISIS because that’s in the media all over the place.
You can’t turn on any news channel and it not be dominated by the discussion surrounding ISIS. Yeah. One thing that, I we found that was really interesting is this article, that CNN put out or maybe even a video, and it basically says this is the title, get this. From Glasgow Girl to bedroom radical and Isis bride. So Trevor, tell us what tell us what happened.
What what what’s going on in this article here? I I just, can we focus on the title for a second? I mean, seriously. CNN is getting classier by the moment. I think Fox and CNN’s, you know, their their their, feud, I think it’s making them lose their mind.
Who who can have the most sensational Yeah. Kind of, in your face title possible? Bedroom Radical? Yeah. We’re moving back to yellow journalism.
You know? This is just Lessons are not learned apparently from history. But yeah. Sorry. I Better medical.
I got stuck on the title. But, basically, this, this young girl, her her parents think she’s going off to college and it turns out she goes over to join, the Islamic fight in, Syria and joins ISIS. So she just ups and leaves, and her parents, it sounds like a breast. Yeah. They’re shocked.
Her whole family is shocked. Well, the next time they hear from her, she basically tells them, I’ve I’ve joined the fight on ISIS. I’m gonna be a a martyr, and hopefully, I’ll see you on the day of judgment. Jeez. And what’s really interesting I think what stuck out to me is that these these these this family is not like this, terrorist type or like this, really, you know, adamant, dogmatic, like, you know, we hate westerners.
They’re they’re just normal people, and their daughter just kinda ups and leaves. Like, it said on in the article that she was reading books like Harry Potter. Yeah. I told you about those Harry Potter books. Hunger Games.
Like, she’s not reading, like, you know, any of these inflammatory type, type books that, would get you, you know, to become militant against, the west. I have said so many times that when you think about Islamic radical ideology, it’s more of a sociological issue than it is a theological one. She’s not staying home at night studying commentaries and the biographies of the prophet Mohammed. She is literally reading Harry Potter. Okay.
So you’re thinking the sociological part would be an influence from an external source, some Wanting to belong. She’s on Facebook. I mean, that’s what that’s what you see in the article is that she’s going on Facebook. She’s reading some of these things that are being posted, and she just wants a place to fit. Yeah.
And so that would even lead her to move to Syria. That just seems like a huge jump to me, but you’re saying that, that desire to fit goes so much further than what we even imagined. I think that is innate in every single human being. We want to belong. We want to fit.
We wanna be a part of something. And when you live in a society where you see a particular group of people being pushed down or stereotyped and maybe you belong to that group in some sort of way and then you see another group that’s fighting for that identity then suddenly it’s a draw. Do you think it’s that she has this real heart for, humanity like injustice or do you think it has more to do with just her feelings of wanting a place to fit and and, you know, just a a a pure psychological reason? I mean, it’s hard to say, but I’m I’m just thinking about cults. Right?
When people join cults, you know, they’re just they really want a place to fit, and it doesn’t really have to do with what the people believe, I don’t think, because it’s not like they’re compelling them so much in their minds that they would join a cult and move in with a cult and commit mass suicide as a cult or whatever these cults do. You know what I’m saying? I mean, what the research has shown is that a person can go from being, you know, just a moderate everyday Muslim that has the same hearts and desires as every other human being. For instance, our friend, to a radical in a very short period of time. And it doesn’t take a theological training seminar to do so.
It’s just sort of feeling that sense of I don’t belong, I don’t fit, and then they see a place where they could fit, they could fight for something. And that’s sort of the process. It’s not a long process and it’s certainly not a theological one. That’s not to say that all radicals are not theological. Some most certainly are.
Sure. Do you think that I’m kinda jumping just off a cliff by comparing ISIS or those kind of radical Islam to cults? I mean, is that, is that too far fetched, do you think? It’s not too far fetched because I think that’s the way a lot of the Muslim world sees some of these radical groups as cultish. Really?
Like, the people on the ground, just the nationals? Well, yeah. Because they see one guy that claims, you know, this guy, the Baghdadi, he claims that he is the new Islamic caliphate. He is the leader of the Islamic world. He is a self proclaimed leader of the Islamic world.
That in and of itself sounds very cultish. So Baghdadi is the leader of ISIS. Yes. Okay. And I read somewhere in a couple of articles before that, ISIS had previous leaders.
So this guy’s not even really the first leader of ISIS, but this guy’s claiming that he’s the leader of all of Islam? The entire Islamic world. Okay. So how does that work, because You just kinda say it. That was his approach.
I’m just gonna claim it and see what happens. I am in charge. What what’s that, adage? If you have to say that you’re the leader, you’re probably not the leader. Yeah.
If you’re if you’re if you’re leading and you look back and no one’s following, you’re just taking a walk. Yeah. That was from John Maxwell. I thought that was pretty profound. He does have have people following him.
I don’t wanna I don’t wanna make it sound like he’s just sort of proclaimed that he is the Islamic world leader and no one’s following. People are following him. But in the same sense of you were making the connection between the cult, you’d when you have a self proclaimed leader of a of a group or a splintersect of a religious, and they have a religious affiliation and people are following them that does not necessarily mean that it was a theologically compelling argument. It might have just been sort of a movement, that gave people a place to belong. And that’s the case I’m making for this young woman.
Got it. So you’re kinda separating, Islam as a whole from this splinter group. Well, you have to. I mean, if you have 1,600,000,000 people in the world and if I just randomly picked 10 Muslims from across the globe and put them together and asked them what should the Islamic empire look like I would get 6 radically different answers I think. Wow.
Okay. So, basically, as, Americans, right, we get this media barrage of ideas. And it just seems like for me, like, when I watch the media and we talked about we’re trying to make it fun of Fox and CNN, but it kinda seems like the the idea is that this is most of the Muslim world. They hate us, and they want us dead, and everybody supports ISIS, but you’re saying that that’s not the case. I was meeting with a young Muslim man earlier this week and, he asked me.
He said, Trevor, do you can you explain to me what ISIS is? He had no clue. Wait wait wait wait wait. You were meeting with a Muslim guy and he was asking you about ISIS? Absolutely.
Oh. I mean, he no. He knows my background is studying Islam. Sure. And then I have, you know, studied this.
And so in his mind, he’s thinking, well, maybe Trevor can explain this to me. I think he’s afraid to ask another Muslim because he honestly doesn’t know how they would respond because so many Muslims feel divided over ISIS. True. Many Muslims are negative towards ISIS. Yeah.
Some Muslims are sympathetic towards ISIS. And he kinda just wants to know what is ISIS all about? What do they believe? Wow. And so, after you talked to him about it, what what was what was his takeaway?
What did he go away with? Just from the brief conversation that we had, I think he felt like the the most despicable thing was that the people who suffer the most at the hands of ISIS are fellow Muslims. Wow. And he just felt like any group that would destroy fellow Muslims couldn’t be right. Yeah.
That that that’s actually pretty stark because in the media, we’re seeing a lot of, persecution against Christians, but we’re not actually seeing, the whole the whole scope. I I guess we’re just reading what we wanna or they’re reporting what we wanna hear Yeah. And things that we’re interested in. And there is there is persecution of Christians by all means. That’s not to be minimized.
No. No. Absolutely not. But in my mind, these Christians have eternal security. Yeah.
When you look at all of these other Muslims that are being lined up and mowed down because they refused to follow this radical ideology or because they are of a different sect of Islam and they’re being mowed down and murdered. Yeah. They’re caught in the crossfire. I mean, this is this radical group and, man, it’s crazy. It is.
It’s it’s just absolutely crazy. But you’re right. We don’t see the fact that Muslims are the ones that suffer the most at the hands of radical ideology. So radical ideology in some ways is its own worst enemy. Yeah.
So going back to this girl, this Glasgow girl, her name’s Aqsa, I guess. I don’t know if I’m probably butchering the the pronunciation. But, she basically, she became pretty radical. Like, her father says, I don’t know when she became this brave. So she was just probably an ordinary girl.
So I I don’t know where I’m going with this. Maybe just the idea that ordinary people become extraordinarily militant and do crazy amounts of damage to other people. So, I mean, I guess in ISIS, it’s really easy just to say, you know what? These people are crazies, you know, but they had to come from somewhere. They had to be someone’s son, someone’s daughter.
They had to have a, a semi normal upbringing. Right? But then the flip, what it was that Al Qaeda said that, they were too aggressive. They were too, brutal, and so they were kicked out, right, of the Al Qaeda? Well, you before Baghdadi, you had another leader in Iraq named Zarqawi, and Zarqawi was also a radical too radical in some sense for even Al Qaeda.
He was the one with, the first beheading of the American journalists, Nick Berg. Mhmm. And so when you see these guys and they’re becoming so radical that even the other radicals are saying, hey, you gotta tone it down. Wow. It’s, it’s kind of it’s it’s, yeah, it’s it’s a little bit crazy.
But you’re making a good point when you talk about how do they go from just being normal sort of, you know, law abiding citizens to radicals. I mean, think of the Boston bombers, at the Boston marathon. Yeah. When they interview the friends, they’re saying, I don’t really know. He was a soccer player.
Yeah. Had him a long life. Yeah. Had to see. Brother was a pothead and music.
And, you know, suddenly he’s willing to commit these crazy crimes. Yeah. Even give up their own life. It’s like I don’t know. Yeah.
I know. I I’m just trying to think in my own mind what would that take for me to go that far with my own life. Well, we’ll we’ll get into that some because there is some research and there’s one particular researcher I I have in mind, that I’d like to bring on the show. He’s the one that’s kind of researching the process of a person going from being at high school, they’re attending the mosque regularly, they’re pretty much just a normal moderate everyday Muslim. I I really just think of them as a normal everyday person that happens to be Muslim.
Yeah. See, his research is really focusing on what are the trigger points that bring them from that to within less than a year being willing to kill others and even themselves for the sake of a radical ideology. Right. And it’s fascinating research. Who is this guy?
I can’t think of his name offhand because he works under a pseudonym. He’s got two names, and I wanna make sure I give the correct name publicly. Right. Yeah. Let’s let’s be safe.
Yeah. But but one of the interesting things that he talks about is there’s gotta be a cognitive dissonant moment. And when you look at Where there’s, like, they’re not satisfied or something’s No. Think about yes. But think about the Boston bombers.
For instance, their mother being arrested and being put in jail because she was caught stealing. Sure. And then think of the older brother when he was arrested, for spousal abuse or he was, I don’t think it was even his spouse at that time. It was his girlfriend. Mhmm.
And then he was not allowed to pursue his dream of becoming an Olympic boxer. And you sort of see these things happening in his life and he’s becoming more and more and more angry. And his idea of the American dream is suddenly this this illusion sort of jaded. What am I gonna do? Yeah.
Right. And then all of that’s happening and suddenly he comes across a website and the propaganda’s there and he buys in and he’s all in. Got it. That that actually makes a lot of sense. Well, it’s a But it wasn’t it wasn’t like he joined a Koranic study and suddenly came up past the the sword verse surah 9 chapter 5 and was like, yes.
That’s what I have to do. That’s not the way it works. I don’t Yeah. You know, no matter what the media says. Yeah.
That’s something else about the media is that, this is just be like a warfare tactic where the enemy, if you if we were going to war with somebody, the enemy would set up propaganda, to our own troops basically making our, enemies into, like, cartoonish evil villains. Mhmm. And we did this in World War 2 with Hitler. Yeah. We did it with the Japanese.
Which was actually a lot easier probably with Hitler because he was doing a lot of, atrocities, obviously. Imagine what it was like to live as a Japanese person in Hawaii Oh, yeah. Post Pearl Harbor. During during Pearl Pearl Harbor. Yeah.
But in this case, with the media, it seems like they’re doing that with Muslims. I mean, to be honest with you, like, ISIS, I don’t know. I just can’t help but I think the the the common American person doesn’t know enough about Islam or Muslims or know enough, no Muslims to be able to separate, that ISIS doesn’t represent Islam. You know, that’s that’s that’s been one of the cries from the Muslim world is, when a Muslim commits an atrocious crime, why do we have to define them by their religious identification? When a Christian commits an atrocious crime, we don’t often say a Christian did this.
Yeah. But the Muslim world is saying, why do we do it with Muslims? And, of course, the media would argue that, well, because they’re doing it in the name of Islam. But it does. It’s hard to separate.
I mean, if you’re honest with yourself, it is hard to separate this idea of Muslims being sort of peaceful and loving and Muslims being radical and, dangerous. It’s hard to know. Yeah. But, I mean, I just kinda think about it in Christian terms. I mean, there are crazies out there that said, you know, they’ll murder somebody and say, god made me do it.
But we don’t automatically think, you know what? Oh, those are all that’s what Christians do. No. Right? We don’t have this thought in our mind that, oh, yeah.
That represents Christianity. Well, I think it’s because we’ve allowed ourselves to believe that that there is a true nature of Islam. I hear that term being thrown around so much nowadays, the true nature of Islam. Yeah. And the bottom line is I don’t believe there is, quote, unquote, a true nature.
I just don’t. Because if you have a true nature, then you’re gonna have to somehow draw a connection between why then is there 1,600,000,000 people around the world that are demonstrating so many varieties of the expressions of their faith when there’s really this true nature. I think we’re giving way too much credit to, to the Koran and the Islamic laws to say that there is, quote, unquote, a true nature. Okay. So explain that to me.
Like, for me, I feel like we as Christians think, okay, true nature, that makes sense because we believe in the Bible. And in the Bible, if you, understand it and interpret it correctly, right, then you’ll get to the true nature of our faith. But you’re the one with Islam, it’s not the way. Say Westboro Baptist then? They they believe they have the true nature of Christianity.
Oh my gosh. Those are the crazies that we’re talking about. I mean, those guys They do not represent Christ, to most Christians. I I, you know, I don’t think the public even thinks that too. But yeah.
Okay. So go on. What was your question? What No. I’m just saying true nature The true nature of Christianity, well, you know, it’s gonna depend who you ask because the the Westborough Baptist really does believe that they have the true nature of Christianity.
Pope Urban the second, when he cried, for the the murder of people in the holy land and said, you know, paradise is your reward or heaven is your reward. Let that be the cry of your heart. I’m sorry, but that was not the true nature of Christianity. And so it was depending on who you ask. So you’re saying that, even amongst Christians, the interpretation, you know, is is, It varies.
It varies. Yeah. Right? And so the true nature I’m I’m quoting. I’m putting my fingers up.
Quoting the true nature it really is, up to each person, I guess, when they interpret it. Well They’ll come up with different things. So Islam, you’re saying the same way? Well, I’m saying in Christianity, we do have we have creeds. We have councils.
We have denominations. We have, historic traditions that we draw from. It’s not that just some guy do do you remember, Howard and I went to school together many, many years ago. And one of the things that we learned, I remember being said is that that heresy and cults are started with 1 person reading their reading their bible in the room late at night alone. Late at night.
Alone. I don’t know why I had to be late at night. Yeah. Probably because they’re tired. Yeah.
I don’t know. But but and I think of that and I think that’s kind of what we look at in Christianity. Right? If you have this one guy who’s starting a new thing and saying, hey. I’ve got this special Kool Aid.
Follow me. Right. This is the new interpretation, then we can kinda look at that and say, well, that doesn’t go along with the historic faith in the global church. Right. Islam has the same thing.
Okay. You following me? Bring it. Bring it. They have schools of law.
Uh-huh. So there there are 4 different schools of law within Sunni Islam. Okay. Within those schools of law, you have certain ways in which Islamic theology happens. It isn’t just some guy reading his Koran in his room late at night coming up with his own theology unless his name is Baghdadi.
Right. Okay. School’s a law. Explain that. I don’t know what a school law is.
Like, law school? Like, congress? Like, bill of rights? Like, what what what kind of laws are you talking about? Okay.
Let me think about it in terms of, like, theological institutions. Uh-huh. So we have a, So the council of Nicea. Well, they do. They do have councils most certainly, and they have what is called the consensus of the scholars.
It’s a nice Arabic term, the Ijma, the the consensus. Say that again slowly. Ijma. Ijma? Ijma.
That sounds good. Well, I like that. Yeah. Throw that one out. But these these Islamic scholars, they they get together and they wrestle with these issues.
They wrestle with them. And so when you hear a person say, well, Islam really is as simple as this, you can pretty much be sure it’s not. Right. Because the scholars are arguing about it. Think about it.
Think about our own Christian history. I mean, how much wrestling Oh my gosh. Used to go on. I mean, even burning at the stake at some time. Spanish inquisition, heretics, heresies.
Yeah. There’s yeah. Yeah. We didn’t we don’t take our theology lightly. Maybe some people do.
Yeah. But I I don’t personally. I don’t think that we should take theology lightly. We should consider that it’s gone through this huge process of historical Islam or true what is that? The true nature of Islam.
True nature. True nature. True sense of Islam or true what is that? The true nature of Islam. Well, there’s a true nature to Islam to a lot of different people.
Right. And that’s the problem. Mhmm. If there were this quote, unquote true nature that everybody’s supposed to be following, like, someone make the case that, oh, well, the the most radical representation is the truest form. Mhmm.
They’re giving way too much credit to the the Quran. And basically, what they’re saying is, well, the other 1,500,000,000 people out there don’t really know the true nature of Islam. And it’s just that’s that’s just ignorant. Which we kinda see in the church too when some church says all the other denominations are going to hell. Because we’ve seen that over history.
Right? Everyone else is wrong, and we’re right. That’s right. They’re they’re pretty sure they’re the only ones going. Yeah.
That’s pretty presumptuous. Yeah. So, okay, that makes sense. That that helps. That clears up a lot of things.
Yeah. Well, we’ll get we’ll get more into it. And like I said, we’ll bring, a particular expert in on Islamic theology. We’re also going to bring in, an expert on the Koran who’s going to explain to us sort of how the Koran is interpreted and see that same process that that Muslims go through when they bring, theological interpretation. It’s just all we need to know right now is that the way that they come up with their theology is equally complex to the way that Christians have come up with theology.
Right. And it doesn’t, it really stirs me when somebody pulls out one verse out of the bible and says, you see? You see what your religion teaches? And I’m just thinking that is so frustrating. And then when I see Christians do it to Muslims, I think That’s not fair.
Dash. No. That’s not fair. Let’s this is 3rd grade theology. Yeah.
We’re better together. How you wanna be treated. That’s right. Yeah. So, anyway, there’s something to be said for being truthful and just just speaking the truth and not making these straw man arguments about other religions.
Yeah. I think our faith is far more robust than that. Mhmm. And it has to be able to encompass the fact that there are other peoples and how we treat them, you know, isn’t, dictated by the media. Right?
It shouldn’t be. Wow. But it often is. You’re right. It absolutely should not be.
Yeah. We should not be taking our theological cues from the media. Wow. It’s amazing that we do that. Sometimes we get stuck in that, America complex.
Everything is America. America. You know? And I love our country, man. I’m I’m blessed that we live here, but Absolutely.
But it doesn’t mean that, you know, Christ has come second to our citizenship. Right? Well, Christ is certainly not American. Merkha or Republican. I remember, Keith Green.
Mhmm. Great guy. Yeah. Keith Green. I remember, him saying that that that Jesus Christ is not a republican.
And everybody was you know? And then he said he’s not even American, and I just thought, oh, man. We’re still dealing with the same issues today. Yeah. I was listening.
Keith Green, man. I listened to that when I was, like, 18 or something like 19, and I was shocked. I’m like, he’s not American. We we need a new Keith Green, a voice in the wilderness. Right.
Right. Anyway, I think it’s time for our boom goes the dynamite moment of the week. Boom goes the dynamite. Alright. So here we go.
This is kinda crazy, like, the boom goes to dynamite should. This segment, we’re really excited about well, okay. Not excited. I think that’s the wrong term. Yeah.
It’s it’s exciting but not for the right reasons. It’s basically somebody has literally dropped a bombshell. It’s a utter moment of just like, what did he just say? Yeah. Why?
Why? Why would you do that? You almost wanna say, did he just say that? Yep. And then you realize that he did, and there’s that moment of anticipation.
Did he just say that? And you’re kinda hoping he didn’t, and then he didn’t. You’re just like, wow. And and the thing is, like, it’s funny to us because we think it’s ridiculous, but it’s not funny because he was serious when he had it. It’s not funny at all.
I mean, unfortunately, it’s when he’s fortunate. Yeah. It’s unfortunate. Alright. So here we go.
It’s Duck Dynasties, Phil Robertson, the patriarch. Right? He has a massive beard. And he seems like a great guy, just to be honest. Like, I I’ve seen the show a couple of times.
He seems like a really nice guy. He does. This isn’t the first time where he’s kind of, maybe said some things that he shouldn’t have in the media. You almost wanna pull him aside or somebody pull him aside and just say, don’t meet with the media? Yeah.
It kinda reminds me of the shock and awe of the Gulf War, you know, George Bush era. Yeah. You know? It’s like it just kinda has that method. I’m gonna shock and awe you because he knows it’s not political work.
Maybe he hates being politically correct. You know, some people like that. They just wanna do what’s opposite, but come on. These are people. Okay?
So It’s almost like he’s swinging the pendulum to the other side against political correctness. Let me just see how radical I can say something and stir people up. Right. And so this is what he says. Here we go.
He’s talking about ISIS and he says convert them or kill them. Convert them or kill them. And boom goes the dynamite. And we are back in, man, the crusades. Welcome back.
You thought we were in the 21st century, but we are back in the crusades. Okay. So I think honestly Phil Robertson’s has more more alike with Isis than he realizes. Alright. Explain that.
Convert or kill? Right. Do you hear me here? This is exactly what he’s saying. I’m picking up what you’re putting down.
I mean, convert or kill. That’s the same radical theology that ISIS is promoting. And here we have an ordained pastor saying the same thing. Yeah. And he’s preaching to the Bible.
That’s why I say this whole idea of there’s a true nature of Islam. Well, what if we said that Phil Robertson’s theology is the true nature of Christianity? Where do we go with that? Yeah. That’s what I love about Jesus is that he’s not like everyone else.
No. I mean, he he like you said, he seems like a really nice guy. I’ve watched the show. I like the show. There’s some entertaining things on the show, but the bottom line is I think he just got this wrong.
He’s got a dynamite beard. I think that if he were to go into the Middle East, they would welcome him as a older man with a big dynamite beard, and he would just connect. He’d be drinking a lot of tea. And I don’t doubt that he would try to share the gospel with them. Yeah.
Absolutely. I hope that if they did not accept Christ that he would not try to kill anyone. Well, what he says is that he’d much rather have a bible study with all of them, but was also prepared for a gunfight alone. Against ISIS. Against ISIS.
Yeah. I mean, I I’ve seen the guy. I mean, like, you know, he looks like he’s in okay shape. He’s a duck hunter. But I’m not so sure if he could take on a military army.
Dude, he could take 2 ducks at the same time. Yeah. You would. I think I think he was just speaking off the cuff and was a little bit too presumptuous. I mean, if the United States air strikes aren’t slowing down ISIS Right.
I highly doubt that his shotgun skills are gonna do it. Yeah. And I you know, that’s the thing about, I don’t know. The the the media, it just seems really cartoonish, and I think Phil Robertson’s kinda adding to it. Like, this one gunman, you know, this one gunman that’s, you know, well past his prime is gonna fight ISIS or have a bible study with him?
I’m like, what world what planet do you come from? He’s gonna have a Doc Holliday moment. I’m your Huckleberry. Do you want? I mean, like, no.
That’s not gonna happen. You will die. Right? Yeah. I maybe he’s underestimating the, the military strength devices.
I mean, they have gained quite a bit in the last few years in strength. Right. Right. And they’re gonna continue until, they’re stopped. But, this these kind of, I think these kind of blanket, you know, cartoony kind of statements don’t help.
Right? He should have stopped with a like to have a bible study with all of them and then maybe just stop right there. Yeah. Because really, you know, ultimately, what we’re doing here is as Christians. Right?
The the whole point, of the mission of God, right, is to to spread God’s glory, and I don’t think that does that. No. The destruction of a man who’s made in the image of God is not not spreading the glory of God. As a matter of fact, I’m pretty sure that ISIS should be loved. Wow.
What’s that in the bible that love your enemy great theology in life. Love your enemy thing? That was a little bit of sarcasm. I’m sorry. No.
I’m I’m no. I’m being serious. Yeah. Right. 3rd great theology.
Like, I keep coming back to it. Like, even if the Muslim world was all like ISIS, it would not change my view about we still have to be able to love our enemy. And the bottom line is ISIS makes up a small percentage of the Muslim world. Right. Most of the Muslim world I’ve encountered is quite easy to love.
Yep. Just like mister Khan. Mister Khan. I mean, he drove out a 100 and I think he said it was a 100 60 miles round trip to pick up Howard’s car for free. 160 miles round trip.
That would have been like a $300 tow. But because he was my friend. Yep. Mister Khan’s like, your friend is my friend. I mean, there’s no doubt.
I’ve said it time and time again. I can name a half a dozen Muslims that would willingly lay down their life for me. Right. Right. I totally yeah.
And I should, right, be willing to do the same. Yep. I just think about, the good Samaritan. You know? I think Jesus was you know?
Like, I I don’t know. We’ve heard it so many times, and we don’t really see the racial tension in that story. No. It’s there. But, if we were the one that was injured, it would be like an ISIS terrorist coming and helping us.
You know? It’s like, it’s not what I thought. You know? It’s, you know, we gotta get out of this I like what you said, the 3rd grade theology. Yeah.
We gotta get out of that. No. I’m saying we gotta go back to 3rd grade theology. Oh. That’s what they teach you in 3rd grade.
Right. You mean we gotta obey what the word says, James. That’s what I’m saying. I’m saying Endoers of the word, not just hearing the word. Saying when when my son is talking to me about what he’s learning in Sunday school and where he’s at in his own walk with God, I’m just sorta like, wow.
I’m still learning that one. Right. And it’s not the the deep areas of theology that I find myself wanting to swim in. It’s the simple things like loving my enemy. Yikes.
Yeah. Absolutely. So, anyway, boom goes the dynamite. Phil Robertson. Let’s hope that he has an opportunity to, redeem himself and and give a better better, sort of theology.
Yeah. A better representation for for the church and and how we respond to Muslim radicals. Next up, the Carpe Diem award or the encouragement of the week. That’s right. We just referenced to dead poet society.
Awesome. Awesome. Great movie. Carpe Diem, season the day. Alright.
So Trevor Season the day this week. Yeah. Tell us about, who we who we nominated. Yeah. This week, we actually have a Muslim as the carpe diem award.
This guy, the grand mufti of Al Hazar University, arguably the, the top scholar in the Muslim world. And what was it exactly was his quote, Harry? Well, what, what the article was titled is is ISIS is not part of Islam. And it says That’s right. That’s right.
Its horrific actions are far from Islam. Yeah. He was actually suggesting that we stop calling them ISIS because by calling them ISIS, we’re encouraging the idea that there can be an Islamic state that this guy is leading. Yeah. And then he put himself in charge.
Yeah. I’m the leader. You can’t just go and say you’re the leader. Yeah. And so he’s publicly going out and he’s saying so what so what is a grand Mufti?
Well, he he is the top scholar of the top university in all of the Islamic schools in the world. It’s argued Got it. So the Islamic University School of Law again. Yeah. Al Azhar University is the top university.
This is sort of the the the cradle of knowledge for Islam. So the the is, in the Islamic world, this guy is well respected. Well, the most well respected. Okay. So this is not a political stunt by him, like, trying to take a power from ISIS because he wants power or something like that.
I know that sounds kinda irritating. No. No. No. No.
No. Yeah. No. But you’re right. I’ve I’ve I’ve even already heard people saying, well, he’s probably just, lying and trying to hide the true nature of what they’re doing, and they’re really all working together.
And Mhmm. This this is the thing that I keep hearing and it drives me crazy because do we not realize that even ISIS just went into a partner Al Qaeda group and sent in their own suicide bomber to destroy their own partners because there was a competition for a jockeying for position. Yes. Wait. So ISIS sent a suicide bomber into Al Qaeda?
Yes. Into another Al Qaeda group in Syria. So ISIS is the, Al Qaeda group. It used to be Al Qaeda group in Iraq. Right.
And then there’s an Al Qaeda group in Syria. Right. And so, as ISIS has formed, they’re no longer part of Al Qaeda. They’ve been denounced by Ayman al Zawahiri, the leader of Al Qaeda. And so what they’re doing now is trying to destroy Al Qaeda.
Wow. And so the grand mufti is saying this is not Islam. They have misunderstood the Quran. They do not understand jihad and we should stop calling them the Islamic State because they are neither Islamic nor a state. Wow.
So okay. So him saying this, the Grand Mufti saying this is a is a you would say is a large representation representation of the Muslim peoples out there. Most definitely. Most definitely. Because when you think about the Muslim world, you you’re really thinking what are the individual imams teaching in the different mosque.
And all of these imams are going through the same sort of, you know, not the same, but theological training that all comes down from a couple different schools of thought in the cradle for that. I mean, if I’m trying to think of this as the Harvard of, knowledge, you know, for you know, we think of Harvard as the top, Ivy League school. Al Hazar is the top religious school in Islam. Okay. That makes sense.
So these 4 schools, they they have this mutual respect for one another? Some mutual respect and some disagreement. They recognize they recognize each other. That’s what I’m saying. They recognize each other and they recognize what their differences are in their interpretations of the Koran and the Hadith and the biography and all the different texts that Islam has.
And they have their their nuances. But for the most part, they all kind of flow within the same stream of orthodoxy for Islam. Right. And so this guy, when he says this, he has a lot of he has a lot of influence over all of these guys. Yeah.
It should it carries weight. Wow. Okay. So tell me about this guy. So, like, is it dangerous for him to publicly denounce ISIS, do you feel?
No. In your opinion? That’s a good question. Because I can’t he’s not a political leader so much. Right?
He’s not the kind of guy that walks around with an entourage, secret service, has his own country. He’s just a normal kind of dude, right, that that, that represents these top scholars. I’m trying to think of who to compare him to, in America because America even American evangelicals, right, there are a few theologians that we kinda prop up as, sort of the keepers of orthodoxy. I think of, j I Packer. Oh, yeah.
Absolutely. J I Packer. Yeah. There’s not everybody agrees with ji packer, but no one’s gonna come right out and when ji packer says something and say, oh, that’s wrong. We’re gonna take some time and think about it because this guy has committed his life to scholarship to you.
Yeah. And so, I mean, you think of another guy, with the reformed theologians, definitely, you’ve got, John Piper Right. Tim Keller. Right. So we have sort of people that we respect and that we think are producing good theology.
And this guy would be the top guy for all of Islam, even though not everyone is gonna agree with all of his theology. Right. It matters. Okay. So I know this might be a jump in the wrong direction, but like the pope?
I wouldn’t I wouldn’t say the pope. I would say Baghdadi. What he’s trying to do is claim the pope. Okay. So this idea of the Islamic state, there is certainly room for that in Islam.
Uh-huh. And whoever leads that Islamic state will lead ruling through a theocracy that will be the caliph. That would be the pope like figure. I wouldn’t say that this man is a pope like figure. He is a scholar.
Okay. Let’s go into dreamland for a second. Alright. Let’s say Baghdadi does for some amazing miraculous, like, bad miracle, he We’re just dreaming here. Yeah.
Just dreaming. He actually becomes the the caliphate. He is. He’s already said it. Well, I mean, like, you know, he unifies.
I said it. That makes it true. What does that mean if if the Muslim world becomes under a single theocracy? What does that mean for the world in dreamland? In dreamland.
What does that mean? Alright. In dreamland, there is a because this has been this has been done. Right. Right?
In the past. Several times. Right. And it hasn’t worked yet. Oh, Well, that’s encouraging.
Right. You have so many Islamic empires that have risen and fallen. And what’s ironic is really the reason that they fall is another Islamic empire comes and crushes it. Okay. So division within.
Of course. Okay. Okay. So you’re basically saying that there’s no shot. There’s no there’s no chance that this would happen even in dreamland because it’s never happened before.
It’s never happened before. And the only time that there is a significant movement of progress and sort of a unity behind the Muslim world is when there’s a common enemy. And then when that enemy dissipates Yeah. There’s inward fighting. Wow.
But we we we know that as even Americans. Right? I mean, think about the most unified times America’s experienced. Do you remember after 911? Yeah.
Do you remember they used to sing even in after the take me out to the ballgame? They would sing God bless America. Right. You saw stickers all over people’s cars. God bless America.
Yep. I mean, it was that was a very tough time. Yeah. We were very conscious of our of our being under 1 nation, This one nation, you know. And so there is an Arab proverb that says it’s me against my brother.
It’s me and my brother against our father. It’s me, my brother and my father against the tribe. It’s my family and my tribe against the nation. It’s our nation against the world. It keeps going.
And so long as there’s a common enemy, there’s gonna be a certain amount of unity. But with ISIS, they have they have not yet gained the, popularity with the common, with the majority Muslim world. The majority Muslim world is actually looking at ISIS in great terror. Okay. But the reason I bring this up is because I’m not saying this against I don’t wanna make a blanket statement, but there have been Christian leaders, right, and some, proponents of the media that have tried to create this fear tactic that Islam is unifying and they are coming.
They are coming. Are we are we still in dreamland? No. I mean, that’s what they’re saying in in the Oh. They they I don’t wanna say this blanket statement, but, you know, I’ve read articles where people are warning, you know what?
Islam is invading. Yeah. And we need to be fearful. Secretly. And we need to stop it, and we need to go to war.
I mean, I come in and they pretend to be moderate. And then when they gain enough popularity, they’re gonna take over. And within 15 years, America will be a Muslim country, and Europe will be a Muslim country, and the entire Russian army will be Muslim. I saw that YouTube video. Yeah.
What is that nonsense then? Because what you’re saying is that that Because what you’re saying is that that cannot happen. Correct? It’s a complete and utter fear tactic, fear mongering sort of argument because the the bottom line is when you look at, so let’s let’s just take for instance if we had a Muslim immigrant that moved here and let’s say he was a little bit radical in nature. Okay.
A little bit crazy. He got in somehow and he has the secret agenda. K. And then his kids go to high school. Maybe his kid starts dating a cheerleader.
Okay. Maybe his kid starts using drugs. Maybe his kid, like every other American kid, begins to kind of explore and own individual identity. Right. It’s not so simple to think that just because a Muslim comes here, he’s gonna have 8 children and those 8 children are gonna marry 8 other, Muslim children and all this radical ideology will just kind of multiply all the way down.
Right. What we know for sure is that he comes in maybe with his 5 or 6 kids. Yep. And then his 5 or 6 kids get married and have 1 or 2 kids, maybe 3. And then their kids may or may not even marry within their own faith.
And they may or may not even have any kids. Right. And so if you take this mathematical anomaly and you just look at it and say, well, we have, you know, we have 3,000,000 Muslims and they’re all gonna get married and they’re gonna produce, you know, this many million. I’m not a mathematician. So I’m I don’t wanna just throw out numbers there.
But this many million. And then you do the exponent exponential multiplication. And the next thing you know, the majority of America is Muslim. Yeah. Unfortunately, that’s just not true.
Actually, I should say fortunately. Right? Unfortunately, that’s just not true. It’s not what’s happening. It’s not reality.
Wow. But it did make a good YouTube. It did. It was exciting. Scary.
Yeah. I watched it and I was like, oh, man. I can’t sleep. And then, you know, I had to, like, turn on a a fun, you know, little sitcom just so I could sleep that night. Yeah.
Wow. And see, that’s what I’m saying. And that’s what the you know? And I’m not saying the media because, you know, who is the media? But, you know, there are proponents proponents in the media that just kinda help us, to go into the wrong direction, I think.
You know? It’s like I tell my kids not to watch horror movies because it just kinda makes them feel helpless. A lot of scary movies. I can’t remember. But when they you know, like, whenever you watch a horror movie, the the the number one thing you’re not thinking is, oh, there’s definitely power in God.
You’re not thinking that. I’m absolutely thinking that. I’m thinking, I’m so scared right now. Jesus told me. My legs have gone completely numb.
No. But that Jesus, right, this moment. But you know, like, you leave that movie theater and you’re like, man, that guy got out and he was lucky. But it wasn’t like the power of God. No.
You know? No. You’re right. And and when you when you watch certain media outlets, you know, just kinda think the same thing. You’re just like, oh, no.
They’re coming. And I just, you know, I just don’t think that helps. It’s kinda like watching jaws right before you go to the beach with your kids. Right. You don’t go in the water.
Yeah. Because if it’s really rough out, man, I’m just gonna put on jaws. Kids aren’t gonna go swimming. Yeah. That’s kinda messed up.
No. I told I told my wife we would never watch that movie with the kids just because I I honestly I mean, I grew up surfing, grew up in the water, and swim all the time. Every time I’m in the water, I feel like I can hear it. You just see this, video camera pan from the bottom. You see your feet dangling.
Right? And even if I’m in a freshwater lake, I’m thinking, seriously There’s something. That bull sharks have been known to swim up rivers. That’s messed up, man. Do not say that.
And alligators? I did not plan to get eaten. Anyway, I don’t know how we got off on that. Well, the media is the media. No.
No. No. Right. Trying to eat us. Yes.
That’s what you’re saying. The media is trying The media is jaws. Is jaws, and we’re surfing. We’re just having a good time. Beware.
Right. When you hear the media this is what I tell people when I’m speaking at a church and I and they’re asking me, you know, I I got this email the other day. And I say, okay. Yeah. I should.
I should start doing the noise when they say I got this email. And I always ask them, did the email that you received the email forward, did it cause you to a fear Muslims or b love and want to reach out to Muslims? Wow. And if it caused you to be afraid, I say delete and even reply to the person who sent it and said, I’m not interested in spreading fear. I’m interested in spreading the love of God.
Wow. That’s a great filter. It is. I mean, what what what good are we doing by making people afraid? Yeah.
No good. No good. No good. Because it takes the power out of it. I mean, there’s just, like, you know, the Lord has given us a command.
Right? Make disciples of all nations. And that I think that that fear, that powerlessness, I don’t think that, that aids us in any way. Yeah. We’ll do a whole podcast on the Jonas syndrome.
Alright. Yeah. Which leads us to our next segment, the resource of the week. Who do we got here, Trevor? We have an excellent resource this week.
We’ve got a, new book, David Garrison, a wind in the house of Islam. Cool. I’m gonna say that again, but if you could give, like, a Okay. Here we go. Alright.
Try it. New book by David Garrison, A Wind in the House of Islam. That was good. I I thought that was great. We need to send that to Garrison to see if he wants to add that.
We didn’t we didn’t even practice that, guys. Excellent book written by David Garrison, a, for, former church planter. He actually wrote the book, church planting movements as well, which was another kind of game changer back in the day in in the eighties, I believe it was. Remember, we read that. Yeah.
We did. Yeah. It was a game changer. Absolutely. I think it’s still a game changer.
But this one, I think, is an even bigger game changer because there is so much division and polarization with the Muslim world and so much negativity that when you read this book Mhmm. You will actually be encouraged about what God is doing. You’ll be reminded that God is at work. Wow. I haven’t even read this book, but I wanna read it now.
You did a good job. Yeah. I mean That’s a great job. I didn’t I didn’t write it. No.
No. No. Great job in, like Oh, getting you excited? Right. It’s like reading rainbow.
You remember that? Yeah. Yes. If you wanna read the if you wanna find out what happens next, you gotta read the book. There you go.
I was, like, reading rainbow. Me again. That’s what we should call the resource time is the reading rainbow time. We could get the I’d take a look at this in a book. I don’t I don’t know.
We could get we could get Lamar we could get Lamar to come and announce that part. Anyway, David Garrison’s book is excellent. We’re actually gonna work really hard to get him on the show. So, hopefully, he’s gonna be coming to Columbia International University at the beginning of next year. They have their annual Evangelical Missiological Society.
It’s a mouthful. Right. Is there, like, nothing that we can shorten that with? EMS, the Evangelical Missiological Society. So he’s the keynote speaker and that’s gonna be I believe it’s in March.
We’ll definitely get the, the time on that because he’s gonna be here and we’re gonna try to get him as a guest on the show to just talk about his book and really encourage you guys, take them. Nice. He didn’t he didn’t practice that one either. That was off the cuff. Yeah.
I I I don’t like this thing. I hope that was not too bad. Anyway, we’ll we’ll we’ll get with, with Garrison and hopefully he’ll join us on the show and talk about all the things that he’s doing because what he reminds us of is that God is at work in the Muslim world. Right. We need to remember that.
Yeah. I don’t know. And just something I wanted to say, this podcast is not getting you to just love Muslims for Muslims’ sake. Right? It’s really because we have a mission.
Right? We have a purpose. We have a And it’s not man focused, this mission. It is not man focused. If it’s all about the idea of I’m gonna go out, and I’m gonna engage in the mission of God because people need Jesus, trust me.
That motivation will be short lived. It’s about God. Yeah. And he’s in control. Right.
He is working. Because, you know, I’m I’m just, you know, going through my head thinking about some people being, like, you know, trying to write us off because they think I wouldn’t mean to love Muslims. Yeah. Yeah. And, they just can’t handle it.
And I just wanna say that upfront. You know? This is bigger than just people. Right? Yeah.
It’s not about people. It’s not even really about Muslims. It’s about God. Right. Man, maybe we should change the name of the show.
The truth about God. Wow. That’s kind of presumptuous, isn’t it? Yeah. We can’t do that.
But one thing I am really excited about is bringing Muslims onto the show. Absolutely. Right? Some of our friends and Man, we ought to make one of our first Muslim guests, mister Khan, since we we totally, shared his story about He would be so awesome. He would be.
That’s right. And you can just imagine us drinking tea as we make this podcast. Mhmm. Because that’s what we’d be doing. He does make excellent tea as well.
It’s delightful. Yeah. I gotta tell you. Alright. Alright.
Don’t forget that you guys can call in, write in, whatever you like. We’ll put all of the show notes on the website. We’d love to hear your feedback. Eventually, once we get enough people listening, we’ll have questions and answers. Yeah.
We will love to be able to discuss that. And, you know, I’m the guy here that doesn’t know much. I’m just kind of an entertaining personality that’s friends with Trevor, so I’m doing this podcast. Trevor’s the guy who knows more, and, of course, he has the connections with, all of these experts and PhDs and stuff like that. So, realize that, I’m I’m gonna be here for you.
For those that don’t know much about Islam, they don’t know much about Muslims, Right? I’m gonna be the guy asking, like, the questions like, okay. What does that mean? What does that mean? Right?
So that’s what I’m here for. So write in those questions, and I’ll be glad to ask those questions. Right? As you write the question, Howard’s gonna literally go, oh, that’s a good question. Yeah.
I was wondering the same thing. Excellent question. We’re on the same page. And he’s gonna ask it, and I’m gonna go, I have no idea. I know.
I feel like we’re friends already. This is great. Alright? I don’t even know all of you listeners, but we’re all friends now. And we we wanna ask you guys one last favor.
Right. Spread the word. We want people to listen to this podcast. We do. Because otherwise, our wives are gonna be like, what are you guys doing up there?
Yeah. I mean, it just sounds like you you disappear for, a couple hours We do love that. Afternoons and hear a lot of laughing, but That’s right. No one’s actually listening to the podcast. Yeah.
That would be unfortunate. That’d be sad. So listen to the podcast, spread the word, get other people to listen. And as we generate some more people listening, we’ll be able to bring on more people and do, more segments. So appreciate you guys listening this week.
So that’s that that’s it for the truth about Muslims. Episode number 1. Educate yourself beyond the media. Thank you so much for listening.