Overcoming Prejudice, Hate, and Fear: A Personal Story:
Once again, Muslim terrorists A terrorist Islamic extremists. These is not irrelevant. It is a warning. Welcome to the truth about Muslims podcast, the official podcast of the Swimmer Center For Muslim Studies, where we help to educate you beyond the media. Here are your hosts, Howard and Trevor.
Alright. So, I came across this guy the other day who had an interesting story, and I wanted to get it on tape, so I asked him to stop by the studio and, yeah. So Eugene, tell us a little bit about your first encounter with a Muslim. My first encounter. That’s so dramatic.
I know. 1st encounter. I had to set it up. 1st encounter. Oh, my word.
I feel like something great happened. I’m gonna add music. Don’t worry. Please, please. That’d be wonderful.
No. I was, taking, Understanding Cultures and Worldviews at Columbia International University, And, we had to conduct an ethnography. Alright. You gotta explain. What’s an ethnography?
Because those those are big terms, ethnography. Okay. It’s just one so take the s off of terms. Nice. I like that.
Put them in a place. Put them in a place. That hurt just a little bit but go ahead. Go ahead. I feel to boil it down to the simplest definition, I would say is to study a people group.
That’s the simplest way to Alright. So I’m assuming your people group was Muslims. Muslim. Alright. Go ahead.
So part of it, we went out to eat and we invited 4 Muslims that, the rest of people in my group found. And so we went to a Mediterranean restaurant. Okay. I don’t mean to interrupt, but you found? Found.
It does sound a little bit like a safari. I’m sorry. Yeah. I didn’t find well Where did you find them? Well, I think we actually did find them.
I I really didn’t think we did. Alright. Tell us that. Tell us that first. Because they were students Okay.
At USC here. University of South Carolina. Yes. Great. Okay.
And the professor for their class told us that they were in their class and said you all need participants for your ethnography. Oh. And I have Muslims in my class. Okay. So connection.
You were in there. Okay. Good. I didn’t, like, go out and was, like, okay. Well, Trevor does that.
Trevor, that’s why I just asked. I was like, is this a common thing? Yeah. I can’t. No.
Yeah. Okay. I hope we’re not turning people to do that. I don’t I don’t know. I did it one time.
I knew the guy was Muslim, and I just shouted to him hello in Arabic, And now Howard thinks I go out, like, just profiling people. You made it sound like you’re profiling. Okay. So so Eugene, you said and you said they. Who so who went with you to go eat?
It was myself, the 4, men from USC Okay. And the 3 of my teammates. Got it. Okay. So you had some friends.
So this is a kind of a big dinner. 7 Yes. 7 people. Okay. Go ahead.
And I’m grateful for the amount of people that were there because when we sat down and they started to introduce themselves and we started to discuss who everyone was and what they did and la la la la, I found myself becoming really angry. I I What? Just angry. It was weird. Yeah.
No. No. No. Keep going, Tom. I know it sounds weird, but I’m sitting there and if you know me, I can talk.
Like, I love to talk. I love to meet people. I love interviews. I love the whole thing. But I’m sitting there and I’m angry.
And I’m I’m just quiet. How did you know? Like, could you just feel it? Like, you just felt a sense of anger? 1, I I just shut down.
It was totally weird. I just sat there and I was really, really, really quiet. And then I just started to become angry and I could feel it like, rising up. It it was it was weird. And so I’m starting to ask myself in my mind, what is happening right now?
Like, this is not normal. This is not okay. So I’m sitting there and I’m thinking and I’m I hear them talking with my other teammates. So I’m not worried about carrying a conversation. I could actually sit in this feeling and discover what was going on.
That’s why you were saying you were glad there was a lot of people. Yes. I’m so glad. Yeah. And so I’m sitting there, and then I start to see pictures of the plane hitting the towers in New York.
Wow. So this whole thing is just all happening at once. Like, there’s conversations going on. You’re totally disengaged because you’re having a whole conversation in your head about Yes. How you’re feeling, what you’re seeing Yes.
Intense. It was it was crazy. I I kept seeing you know that same media footage of the plane coming in and it hits the tower. Yeah. And I’m I’m seeing that I’m even seeing the scene where the guy is running down the street and his camera’s backwards.
And and you can see him running because the camera’s moving. Yeah. And people are running behind me. You see, you know, all these things. And the dust and Yes.
So that is going through my mind over and over, and and I become just angry. And I didn’t say anything out loud but I didn’t talk to anyone really the entire time, like my teammates are talking with them and they’re laughing and they’re getting to know them. I did not want to know them. I didn’t care anything about them. I was like, I don’t wanna have anything to do with you because you are a murderer.
This was the first time you met these guys? This first time. Very first time. Was was there anything that you recall, like, was there a trigger? Like, somebody Yes.
Said something, looked a certain way? Did they reference 9 I mean, what was it? One of the guys, his name was Osama. You’re kidding me. I am not kidding with you.
He said it, my name is Osama, and I think I mentally lost it. Lost it. Absolutely lost it. Yeah. I can totally see how that would trigger those those thoughts, those feelings.
Man. So what happened next? What what what I mean, was that the end? Did you sprint out of the restroom in in terror? Like, did you get an a in the class or No.
Did you complete the project? Trevor’s Trevor’s thinking about grades. Oh, no. He’s thinking about grades. Well, yeah.
So what I’m You were such an academic. He is a professor, so yeah. Yeah. He really is. No.
After that, I talked with my teammates. And we were able to discuss because there was one other guy who fought through it a lot better than I did. And he said, you know, I had those exact same images. So you weren’t alone. I was not alone.
And what’s interesting is, we come from totally two backgrounds. Like, we are different. But he and I discussed afterwards. He said, oh, I kept seeing those exact same images, but I had to just keep going through and just keep talking so that I would not just stop. And for me, I did not have the ability to keep going.
I just shut down. So, I was able to discuss that with the team and how I felt and we were able to talk about it out loud and I decided, I said, it’s not okay for me to judge them off of this. And this was 2013, maybe? Mhmm. So from 911 and o one.
Correct? So 12 years ago. Mhmm. Till 2013. And I didn’t know that was even possible for that to come back up, like, in my mind to have that much hatred.
Well, now how old were you in in 2001, do you think? I was 14 when that happened. Where were you? 13. Everybody knows exactly where they were.
- Go back to that day for me. Where were you? I will. 13 years old, freshman in high school, walking down the hall after lunch and I just saw televisions on everywhere in people’s classrooms.
So I’m walking down, I’m like, why? Does everyone have their door open with televisions on? And I go to math class, and that’s where I see on the screen what was happening, or what took place. That’s crazy. So we talked, and I decided, okay.
This is not like Jesus. And I would be upset. I’m an African American. I would be upset if someone made judgments about me. So the show wouldn’t be possible without sponsors.
And this week’s sponsors are. Zwamer Center. Zwamer Center. The Zwamer Center. The Zwamer Center.
Zwamer Center. And what does the Zweimer Center do? Talks about Muslims and and tells them on the computer that we love you. Very nice. The Swimmer Center equips the church to reach Muslims.
The Swimmer Center has been educating people about reaching Muslims before it was cool. And I would be upset. I’m an African American. I would be upset if someone made judgments about me. So that brings in a whole honestly, Eugene, I wanted to go there but I was like, I know.
Eugene and I have not talked about this. I don’t know if I can go there. Okay. So that was in my mind. I’m thinking, wow, of all folks, Eugene should be the 1st and foremost to pick up on this.
Go for it. You’re African American. How does this all work out for you? Yeah. So in my mind, I would be upset if people judge me and they have judged me off of BET, off of the Michael Brown case, off of things of that nature that in media, I would be upset.
Like absolutely upset and I would say, you don’t know me, you don’t know where I come from, Right. And I would just go in this whole spiel. But I found myself in this in the other seat and I was judging these guys. And I said, that’s just not okay. And what turned out, what, what began as fear and anger turned out to be a great friendship.
Woah. Wait. Wait. Wait. I can tell you how.
Do do you want me to? Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I was just saying You said a great friendship. That’s Oh. That’s you. I was thinking Project, like you got an a. Well, I did get an a.
I did. I did get an a. But it was a great friendship in the aspect of I did not shy away from my anger. The next time that I met with them, we talked about it. You talked about it the second time you’ve met them.
Second time we met. It was so good. It was so good. And and and that’s when I learned that all Muslims are not the same. Yes.
And even they were not approving of what was happening or what did happen. Alright. I gotta hear the story though. How did that come about? Sitting at Starbucks and, we were talking about something.
And I said, so what do you guys think of these Muslims who are killing in the name of Allah? He’s a real straight shooter. Yeah. He made 4 punches. Go ahead.
And, and and they were able to help me understand that not everyone thought the same way. And one of them, Osama, to be exact, he said, the people who do that are not real. He said, they are like the mist off of a waterfall. They’re not really the water. They’re just like a mist.
They’re not real. And They got deep there. Right. Right. And I was like, good job.
I’ll like that. I like you philosophy. Yeah. Yeah. You know?
That’s where the teaching at USC are at. But all of them were going for their PhDs. So yeah. Oh, so obviously intelligent. They’re not just some, you know, some guys that you just picked up.
I mean, like you said in the beginning. Yeah. Yeah. No. Not just some guys we just found and say, hey.
Are you Muslim? You look Muslim. Right. Come here. It’s like someone asked me, are a basketball player?
Oh my god. Do you rap? Right. You’re like, yes. I do.
But that’s a bad point. I kill it on a mic. You’re like, why do you think I rap? I mean, I do. Alright.
So yeah. Okay. So and and they said it was like the mist. Yes. That was cool.
And and I was able to confess to them my anger. I was able to confess to them the fact that I’d already judged them. Mhmm. So it I believe in being honest. Right.
And might as well be, you know? Mhmm. We’re we’re sitting here and we’re having this this conversation and I wanna go deep because whenever they’re out of my life and I’m out of theirs, the next person I meet, I can just talk to them and not judge them off of media and what I’ve seen. So, it was a great learning experience. That’s awesome.
I mean, it really turned around that fast and I think it’s because my heart, though I recognized that anger, I wanted it out of me. Right. You knew it wasn’t right. Yeah. We’re gonna leave it there.
Yeah. Mhmm. That is an amazing story, Eugene. It’s crazy. Thank you so much for sharing that, man.
Yeah. So literally, I just one day said to Eugene, hey. Go listen to this podcast. I said, what’s it about? I said Muslims.
And he’s like, oh, I got a story for you. That was that’s how this came about. And so, man, I appreciate your honesty, your vulnerability, being able to share that. I mean, most of us, we feel those things and we don’t talk about them. Mhmm.
We just react to them. Mhmm. And I think that’s a good challenge for listeners is we don’t often know why, but we do feel those things. Frustration, anger, fear. Yeah.
And it overcomes us and I think bringing it out into the light, naming it Mhmm. Is the first step in letting that not have a hold because I think we give the devil a foothold when we keep those things in, and you would have probably never encountered another Muslim. But now you’re saying, I could talk to a Muslim Yeah. And be real with them. Yeah.
And it’s and it’s it’s fine and and just learning so much from you all on the podcast and from what you have shared and it’s been it’s been great. And I can meet them and I’m like, hey. Yeah. How’s it going? Because I’m already like a very happy person.
Right. And you’re past the anger. Yeah. I’m not angry, you know, with with whatever. And so I’m just like, hey, so what’s your name?
It? Even if your name is Osama. Right. You’re like, hey. I’ve done that.
Yeah. I’ve been there. What? Been there. Done that, man.
So yeah. So it’s been great, and the Lord is faithful. He really is faithful and I wanna meet people where they are and just love them and Okay. So I have one more question. Alright.
Oh, gosh. Do I rap? Do you rap? Man. Man.
Man, I rock the mic. You rock. That’s what I’m saying. I’m not internationally Eugene. This is truth about Muslim podcast.
Thank you.