Does it seem like you need an advanced degree from a seminary to talk with Muslims about Jesus? Hear 7 principles that every Christian can apply in Muslim ministry from an unlikely source, 18th century Anglican Missionary Henry Martyn.
I’ll Ride With You Article
Jonathan Edwards – The Life and Diary of David Brainerd
John Sargent – A Memoir of Henry Martyn
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Here starts the auto-generated transcription of Practical Muslim Evangelism from the Life of Henry Martyn:


Once again, Muslim terrorists A terrorist Islamic extremist. These are the terrorists of the country. Random justice and brutal endeavors. Newsflash America. These is not irrelevant.

It is a warning. Welcome to the truth about Muslims podcast, the official podcast Swimmer Center For Muslim Studies, where we help to educate you beyond the media. Here are your hosts, Howard and Trevor. You are listening to truth about Muslims podcast.

And what we try to do every week, and and if you’re a regular listener, what you’ll notice, what we try to do is that we wanna help Christians, to be able to see Muslims outside of what the media, tells us about them and to actually see them as people as Christ would. Yeah. I mean, in the past few weeks, even over Christmas, there’s been a lot in the news about Muslims, and, we’re gonna get into some of that today. In particularly, I was thinking about the, the stuff going on in Australia. Yeah.

The I think that’s, like, the perfect example. And what’s what’s, this is what hurts me a little bit is that this wasn’t done by Christians per se, this thing that we’re about to talk to you about. It’s just normal people. We don’t know. They might be Christians.

Yeah. I’m I’m hoping they are. I’m hoping they are. But there there’s been this huge huge, uprising, not uprising, but does this movement A social media movement. Right.

Basically, a couple weeks, last week, Howard was really sick. And, he sent me he sent me a text and said, hey, have you have you seen I’ll ride with you, The hashtag and I thought no. I have no idea what you’re talking about. He said you gotta watch it. He said maybe it’s that I’m a little bit sick, but it almost made me cry.

So I mean I was I was I was really emotional. I don’t I don’t know. Listeners, please, if you, if you feel this way, then, you know, you you get what I’m saying. But, like, when I’m sick, I just kinda get emotional. I I I actually cried in the Apple ad.

Apple put out this, you know, these little blurpees. There’s so good, this Apple ad. Christmas ads. And I I seriously, I was I was crying. And I showed my wife, and my wife is an emotional person too.

My wife, she just looks at me like Oh, that’s a good ad. What’s the matter with you? Well, Howard Howard sends me this, this text saying you gotta check out, I’ll ride with you. And I had no idea what it was, but I you know, I was humored because he said it almost made him cry, which means it probably made him cry. Right.

It did. So I I went and I checked it out and seriously, I got teary eyed myself. Right. And I wasn’t sick And I’m not a very emotional person. It Yeah.

Yeah. So there’s this article. It was, Australians just showed the world exactly how to respond to terrorism with hashtag I’ll ride with you. And if you’re not familiar with hashtags, I don’t I don’t know, all of our relationships might not know, go to Google. Right?

And you can basically you you type in the the the pound symbol, and you can type in, you know, without spaces, just any kind of topic. And people put it on Facebook, people put it on Twitter, and, you know, you can click on those, and it’ll take you to other feeds that show all those people that have used that hashtag. So it’s pretty cool. And in this hashtag, it was I’ll ride with you. So, Trevor, you take this story now.

Well, I mean, basically, we’re dealing with the the hostage crisis in downtown Sydney, Australia. And so this is classic, basically what’s happening all around the western world something happens, it’s perpetuated by it’s done by by Muslims and it’s done typically in the name of Islam And so there’s an automatic response usually from the people to think, well, there we go. There’s the true nature of Islam. All Muslims are blank. Islamophobia.

There you go. And so, basically, the Australians responded in a completely different way. I mean, it was it was seriously challenging, and I do hope that as Christians we would be humbled by this response, I think and maybe these people are Christian. Maybe they’re not. I don’t know, but go ahead, Howard.

What? Yeah. So there’s this woman, Rachel Jacobs. She’s tweeting, and she writes, in a 2 part tweet. And, and this is dot dot dot.

And and the and and the Muslim woman next to me on the train silently removes her hijab. And this is after they find out this hostage situation is happening. The, some of the attackers put the, is an Islamic flag in the cafe window. And then after that, it says, I ran after her at the train station. I said, put it back on.

She’s talking to this Muslim woman. Put it back on. I’ll walk with you. She started to cry and hugged me for about a minute, then walked off alone. And so after that, right after that, somebody writes another, another tweet and just says, you know, if there’s anybody else out there, you know, if you regularly take, you know, so and so bus, wear and wear religious attire and don’t feel safe alone, I’ll ride with you.

Just hit me up for a schedule. And then then that person writes, maybe start a hashtag. What’s, what’s in hashtag I’ll ride with you? And then literally, it was like a in 12 hours, a 150,000 tweets without hashtag I’ll ride with you pops up where people are just going crazy just saying, I’ll ride with you. If you’re wearing religious attire and you don’t feel safe, I’ll ride with you.

This is where I’m this is the bus I’m riding. This is the train I’m riding, subway I’m riding. I’ll ride with you, and it’s all over Australia. It was so cool. And for me, it was just it was encouraging because I think sometimes you feel like, I don’t know, you see so much hate and you see so much frustration.

And to see a 150,000 people all being willing to say, hey. If if you’re Muslim and you wear the hijab, I’ll ride with you. That that, for me, was a very encouraging moment and knowing that there are people out there that can still display the image of God. Believers are non believers in my mind that kind of Sacrificial love is the image of God being displayed in humanity. I was encouraged by it I don’t know that I got as weepy as Howard, but I did get a little weepy.

Well, I read some of the other tweets, and this one was from a Muslim woman. She says, I was gonna drive to work tomorrow, but seeing the outpouring of support changed my mind. Hashtag I’ll ride with you. Thank you. See you on the train.

I thought that was so cool. I thought that was so cool, because, I mean, the Australian people and I, you know, I know some Aussies and, oh, last week’s Peter Riddell, another Aussie, and it was, it it’s really kinda neat to see how they just think differently. Yeah. Yeah. And, you know, I I would hope for our, our American public that we would we would follow suit, and especially the church, especially the church.

Yeah. We should be the first saying I’ll ride with you. I will love you. I will be a friend. I will be, a fellow citizen that is about, you know, people.

So Right. Anyway, Howard, in one in one thought I just had, I did see this, about a I think it was about a year ago with an American soccer player. What do you mean? High school soccer team and the young Muslim girl came out to play soccer, and the the referee told her she couldn’t wear hijab. Oh, right.

Right. Right. Right. And, the FIFA had already ruled on this that you’re allowed to wear that as part of the uniform, but this referee wouldn’t let her play. And so the next time that ref was, reffing, the entire team showed up wearing the hijab in support of their Muslim friend.

I mean, that’s that’s pretty amazing love and care for a friend. And so they just kinda stood with her and wore the the job and Right. Yeah. Anyway And you know what my guess would be? My guess would be that those girls on that team, that are standing in solidarity with their Muslim friend would, actually never have a problem seeing Muslims as human beings.

No. Because they know one. Right. And that that’s what I hear actually with kids, like, you know, I’m a youth pastor and all the kids that I deal with. They don’t really have problems with Muslims because they know Muslims at school, and they’re friends with Muslims at school.

So it’s not like this monster that that media portrays. But I think a lot of Americans, we don’t we don’t know enough Muslims. And that’s what kinda leads us to the next point because we were gonna actually talk about, Henry Martin today. Yeah. Yeah.

Life of Henry Martin. So we’re gonna do some practical Muslim evangelism from the life of Henry Martin. And and on this show, you hear a lot of our our our guest speakers come in or, interviews, talking about, you know, just reaching out. And I love this I’ll ride with you. This woman, you know, just sits next to this woman on a train and and tells her, no.

No. No. Don’t take it off. Don’t take off your hijab. You know?

I’ll be with you. I’ll walk with you. You know? And it’s like just that human touch. And I think that’s a I think that’s a great segue to this practical evangelism because, you know, Trevor and I were talking about how hard it is to, you know, you get kinda get confused with all the information that’s kinda coming at you, maybe even on this show, and you’re trying to think about, you know, how am I gonna actually do this?

So Henry Martin, who is no longer alive, it’s, you know, a 100 200 years ago, but he has some great, great stuff. So, Trevor, take it away. Yeah. Well, we gotta start with David Brainerd because Henry Martin was one of those young guys that had read the diary of David Brainerd and was so inspired that he felt like he wanted his life to emulate David Brainerd. And it’s uncanny how much their lives sort of parallel.

They both died young. Both. I mean, what David Braynard, 29 and and Harry Martin, I think was 31. 31. That’s correct.

Yeah. Yep. So, Howard, you’ve read, Diary of David Brainerd. Yes. Give us a little bit on David Brainerd first.

David Brainerd was huge impactful in my life because, you know, I don’t know about you, but in this day and age with, you know, missionaries and stuff like that, people try to create some hype. You know, like, we’re trying to get support. We’re gonna do great things for God and all this kind of stuff. And David Braynard’s diary is nothing like that. It, you know, talks about his story, his, what had happened in his early childhood.

But, Prone to melancholy. Right. He had depression. He struggled with all these kind of things. But, you know so he was going, he gets saved when he’s around 21, meets the Lord for real, and then, he decides to go into Yale.

I think, actually, he was planning on going to Yale before that, but, you know, it’s for his seminary degree. Yeah. I don’t think most people realize that Yale was at one point a theological institution. Right. And they still have an MDiv program at Yale, and they do still do theology, but that was really the bread and butter of Yale back in the day.

Right. A lot of these colleges were like that or universities died. Leagues. Right. Anyway, so David Braynard goes there, but he gets expelled because this great awakening happens.

Like, spiritual things are going like, people are going crazy. Students are, like, are meeting the Lord and, like, all these miraculous things are happening. The problem was that the students were more on fire, more zealous zealous for Jesus than the faculty. Right. And the faculty wanted it to stop.

They’re like, this is ridiculous. Right? And so they they, they get, Jonathan Edwards. To come in. They’re like, let’s get Jonathan Edwards in here and he’ll calm him down.

Right. And then Jonathan Edwards proceeds to preach on, like, the exact opposite. He was basically saying that this was an awakening. This was a move of God. And, of course, the faculty weren’t happy.

No. They weren’t happy. And they actually come up with some rules Yeah. Saying, like, if anybody anybody suggest that the faculty or the trustees or, you know, deans, if anybody suggests any of these faculty and administrative people are somehow carnal. Yeah, hypocrites.

Hypocrites. Unconverted men. Unconverted. The first punishment will be, I think it was public repentance. Right?

You have to confess in the hall. Okay. Right. Confession in the hall. In front of everybody.

And then the second one is expulsion. And and David Braynard, and this is the other thing I noticed about missionaries is missionaries, I think, are a different breed of people. They’re they’re more akin, I think, in my heart to to, like, entrepreneurs where they just kinda they they go after it. You know, they just go after it. They lack the prefrontal cortex.

Right, there’s no, oh, warning, warning, you know. He just went for nothing. Words coming out of my mouth, oh no. And so, he says this ridiculous thing, and I wanna I wanna read it to you. Okay?

He says of one of his tutors, he says, has no more grace than a chair. Mhmm. And that he wondered why the rector did not drop down dead for fining students for their evangelical zeal. So I think he was probably just saying this with his buddies. Right?

Right. Just goofing off. He’s just like, man. That guy’s like, you know He has no no more grace in that tree right there. Right.

You know? But he gets turned in. Yeah. He gets turned in and he gets expelled. Full on expelled.

So the direction he was going. Yeah. The direction becoming a pastor, getting his MDiv, and all that good stuff. And he was, like, the top of his class. This was his junior year, his 3rd year.

Done. Like yeah. And and, And he got tuberculosis. Right. And he had tuberculosis.

He was spitting up blood. His 2nd year, he had to actually leave. Yeah. His 1st year, he got measles. So I don’t know what was going on.

So if there was a reason to be prone to melancholy, he had it. Right. And so he, you know, he gets this opportunity because, you know, he wanted to be a missionary to the Indians and he thought that had died. But then he was approached by this organization. And get this, it’s the sponsorship of the commissioners of the society in Scotland for propagating Christian knowledge.

The Scottish will take him on c o s s p c k. Yeah. That’s a good acronym there. Well, anyway, so they they, you know, they they pick him up, and he becomes a a missionary to the Indians. You know what, though?

He’s still I mean, in reality, he’s a pretty ineffective missionary so far as how we measure these things. Right? This is what I love about the difference between our economy and God’s economy because we’re looking at this and if we only were living as contemporaries of David Brainerd, we would have probably sneered and been like, man, not not too effective. Right. Because, I mean Handful of converts?

Yeah. There were converts. Handful. But they weren’t, like, in droves. He wasn’t leading entire tribes to the Lord kind of thing.

And he dies at such a young age of tuberculosis. But wait. There is Jonathan Edwards is the one who cares for him, his daughter, Jerusha Edwards. Alright. Nicholas Sparks has got nothing on this story.

This is, like, the ultimate Nicholas Sparks love story coming out summer 2015. Right. So and so, you know, after enduring all these hardships, David Braynard basically comes home because he’s dying of tuberculosis. And, his mentor is, like, Jonathan Edwards. Jonathan Jonathan Edwards loves him.

He’s the actually he’s the guy that actually compiles his diary. Mhmm. But he’s but he’s in love. David Raynard’s in love with his daughter, Drusha. Drusha is in love with David Raynard.

So she nurses him, basically until he he passes away. And, Jonathan Edwards knows, he knows that his daughter will get tuberculosis if she does this. And she she does. She gets tuberculosis and she dies. I’m not I could be mistaken on this.

I don’t think that I am. This could be Christian urban legend. But I think she dies a year later on Valentine’s Day. Oh, really? I’m serious.

That’s depressing. No. That’s Nicholas Sparks novel. The the thing is, on an interesting side note is my, my middle daughter, my well, I have 2 daughters. My second daughter, her middle name is Drusha because that that that whole thing just that sacrificial love just really on both parts, on Jonathan Edwards’ parts and Drusha’s parts, just really just, it spoke to me in such a deep degree.

So I I named my, my second daughter Jerusha, middle. But you need to look that up, that February 14 thing, because I’m pretty sure it’s true. Anyway, let’s move on. It was not a podcast on David Brayner, but we have to talk about David Brayner to get to Henry Martin. Yes.

Because you kind of get the idea of what David Brayner went through. And Henry Martin, when he reads this, he’s overwhelmed, kind of like I was. And then go And every other missionary since then has been so inspired by David Brainerd story. And it kinda makes you realize that the people that we often prop up as the leaders of Christianity, we would not have propped up David Brainerd. Right.

Because he was down in the dumps. He was suffering and he was quiet. Oh, he Jonathan Edwards actually made this point. He said he wished he was more like David Braynard because David Braynard, when he looked at nature, he didn’t care. Where Jonathan Edwards would walk through the woods and be lost in God, you know, being in the nature, just being so moved by nature.

But David Braynard was so focused. He didn’t care about nature. He was depressed. He was just he even had a hard time loving the people that he was called to. It was really interesting.

It’s real vulnerable, real real life. And isn’t there a moment where he actually goes out to pray and he comes out of his prayer and he has melted the snow around him. Right. And, some of his prayers And he melted snow with prayer. Some of his prayers that were really gut wrenching is that he really was lonely.

Like, he wanted another Christian brother to come and they could talk about God and and mutually encourage each other. It was so so depressing. We He felt so alone. We would have definitely told David Braynard to get get in counseling and and just not to do ministry, but somehow God used that part of his life to be what ministers to so many other people. Right.

And I think that’s pretty encouraging because there’s a lot of folks out there that are like, man, I’m just not wired like some of these radical guys. And I’m thinking, well, thank God. Because we need the whole body of Christ. We need the David Brainerd. We need the melancholy, those who are suffering with real issues of depression and things and to to speak into the life of the body of Christ.

So, anyway, spoken to Henry Martin’s life, inspired Henry Martin. Henry Martin goes out as a missionary to the subcontinent of India. He’s traveling around northern India ends up in Persia translates the Bible Persian Arabic There’s another, Urdu, and he’s just this prolific bible translator incredibly effective in bible translation. Very young. Very still very young.

Very young. Also, there’s a love story there. You can go read that in his own, diary writings, but he has a love story too. There’s a a deep love he has for this woman back home, but she does not want to go to the mission field and they’re kind of parting of ways for the, Henry Martins pursuing, the the missionary life and it’s a pretty intense story. But from Henry Martin, we see these principles of evangelism and this came out of an article that was written, for Urbana several years ago.

I just kinda came across it. And as I looked at these principles of evangelism that come from the life of Henry Martin, I realized something. If I’m only given 20 minutes and somebody says give me the the the overview, what should we know about ministering to Muslims, I go to this. Wow. Wait, you’ve taught this in class too.

Yeah. No. This is what this is the last lecture I give and I teach a course on Muslim evangelism. The very last lecture is on these seven principles. Because I say, if you forget everything else, remember this because anybody can do this.

And, listeners, remember, I’m the guy that doesn’t know anything. I’m just kinda here on the ride and I’m hopefully somewhat entertaining. But, anyway, Trevor is saying these things that I’m I haven’t even heard them yet, so I’m pretty excited about it. So go away. I mean, go away.

Go get out of here. Go ahead, Trevor. Alright. I’ll start with, Henry Martin’s realization that his, he went he went with the original intention of because again, he is brilliant like David Brainerd top of his class brilliant in mathematics and everybody said he was selling himself short by going to the mission field that he could have become one of the brilliant minds. Instead, he joins the Anglican church and becomes an Anglican missionary.

Wow. Now, when he gets out to the field, he’s thinking that I’m gonna convince these Muslims through mathematics, through reasoning, through all of, you know, his brilliance. He’s gonna use apologetics, basically, math to witness to No. This is what he comes to realize. And Raymond Law had a similar approach.

He says, frigid reasoning with men of perverse minds seldom brings men to Christ. How powerless are the best directed arguments unless the Holy Ghost renders them effectual. Oh, I like that. We should not talk like that anymore. I know.

And we don’t even say Holy Ghost. I don’t know. Maybe you come from Pentecostal Church, but I like it. Holy Ghost. So he basically says that his reasoning was useless and that none of his arguments were working and so he takes a totally different approach and believe it or not, it’s a relational approach.

So the show wouldn’t be possible without sponsors and this week’s sponsors are. Zwammer Center. Zwammer Center. Wamers Center. Zweimer Center.

And what does the Zweimer Center do? Talks about Muslims and and tells them on the computer that we love you. Very nice. The Wehmer Center equips the church to reach Muslims. The Swimmer Center has been educating people about reaching Muslims before it was cool.

Okay. Go ahead. Alright. So principle number 1, share your testimony. Whoo.

Your story. Right? We’re all about that now anyway. Yeah. So hit mark.

Yeah. Got it. Share your testimony as to how you experience forgiveness of sins and peace with God through Jesus Christ. And those two components of your testimony, forgiveness of sin and peace with God, are key. And can I say, like, I know that some of you guys maybe grew up in the church and don’t feel like you have a, like, a dynamic testimony?

You weren’t, like, a gangster and shooting people and doing drugs and stuff. But, you know, like, I think to a Muslim, whenever they just hear, like you just said, Trevor, right, peace, they have peace with God, I think that’s mind blowing. And then forgiveness of sins. Right? Because, Trevor, you had mentioned earlier in some other podcast, like, you know, how Muslims can, you know, deal with their sin, right, with, with Allah.

And it’s, about doing the things that they’re supposed to do. Right. Right? But it’s not really about is it is there a cleansing of sins with with Muslims? No.

Not not in the sense that we see it. There is a whole heavy burden because they know that even, the prophet of God, Mohammed, they would say would have to they wouldn’t say he was a sinner, but they know. They read in the text that he had to ask for forgiveness. And so if he himself had these issues that he was dealing with and needed forgiveness of God, how much more do they? And so there’s a very little hope in that.

And so asking the Lord to forgive them of their sin is a daily thing, but I don’t know that they can ever truly know. Okay. No. Let me take that back. They can’t truly know if their sin has been forgiven.

They can say that we trust that God is merciful. That’s why They can’t know. So that’s why if we have total peace knowing that our sick sins are forgiven, that God has completely forgiven our sins, it’s radical to them. It’s radical to say that I can approach the throne of God with confidence. Okay.

That’s a radical Say that point again so that we can kinda review it. So what’s the point? Share your testimony as to how you’ve experienced forgiveness of sin and peace with God through Christ Jesus. Okay. Cool.

Yeah. Principle number 2. Alright. Remember, share your testimony. Principle number 2, appreciate the best in your Muslim friends and attribute these qualities of God these qualities to God working in their lives.

Alright? Appreciate the best in your Muslim friends and attribute these qualities to God working in their lives. He goes on to say the same goes for elements of Muslim culture that are genuinely approved of by God. Okay. So let’s go to the image of God.

We were all created in the image of God. Right? Mhmm. So when we see people acting out in our true natures of who God had created us to be, he says to cling to those things? Cling to those things and give God the glory.

So, like, if you see somebody loving somebody well, even if they’re not a believer, attribute that quality that that person has to God working in their life. It’s bigger. Right? I mean, when you look at a Muslim and they say, you know, I’d like you to meet my mother and, she lives with us and we care for her, I I immediately say, man, I thank God that you’ve been faithful to care for your mother, to honor your mother, to honor your father that way. That’s amazing.

And Wow. Praise be to God for your faithfulness to your parents. And, you know, I can’t help but think that that would be an encouragement to the missionary as well, to stop seeing their people as just completely lost, hopeless, you know, like, ugly or, broken. You know, just seeing them in completely negative, but rather that this is like you’re kinda looking for what God has already been doing. That’s right.

You’re looking for where is God working in their life because he is. Even if we don’t even if they’re not believers, we can assume that God is still working. Right. So and then there’s that second part that says the same goes for elements of Muslim culture that are genuinely approved of by God. Some of you guys might be thinking exactly what would that be.

Uh-huh. Right. What part that culture would be approved of by God? Well, something that comes to my mind is the hospitality. We talked about this with Shireen.

Right? Shireen, the the hospitality of Islamic culture is, astounding. Like, I I remember when I was, in, in Mumbai, and it was Eid, and I got invited in. I just started talking to a guy. Like, what’s going on?

Everyone’s wearing religious garb. It was a Muslim sector. And I’m like, what’s going on? And they’re like, oh, we’re celebrating Eid. And so they bring me into their house.

I’ve never met these people. I just came out of my hotel room. They brought me to the house, fed me food, helped me they asked me to help them slaughter a goat. Actually, 2 goats. And then, yeah, and then I’m eating and meeting their family.

We’re just talking for a couple hours and it was amazing. And you could literally just say, I’m so thankful to God for your hospitality. Right. Clearly, I can see this is Paul in Acts 17. Right?

Clearly, I can see that you’re a religious people. Oh, right. So he’s not talking to believers when he says that. But I No. I can I can talk to a Muslim and say, I thank God for your hospitality?

You have displayed a care for me that only comes from God, and I thank him for that. I mean, that’s that’s okay to do. You’re not you know, somebody might be thinking, oh, but you’re affirming, you know, Allah is the true God. In my mind, there is only one God. Okay?

So I’m okay with God knows who I’m talking about. Right. And which will lead to other conversations probably. Exactly. Because they might might just ask, what do you mean by God?

And there we go. Here’s the conversation. And and for me, when I explain God, I mean, ultimately, the the best representation I have of God is is Christ. Right? Fully God, fully man.

Alright. Number 3. What was number 2 again? That’s right. Appreciate the best in your Muslim friends, and the same goes for, aspects of Muslim culture that are genuinely approved of by God.

Number 3, keep your message centered in Christ. Speak about the grace of God and how this is transmitted through Christ. Keep it centered on Christ. Become an expert at bringing every conversation back to Jesus. Okay.

So can you give me an example? Let’s see. So maybe maybe they’re gonna ask you a question like, hey. So what are your thoughts about Mohammed? And I have this principle that says you do not have to make Mohammed look bad in order to make Jesus look good.

Right. You’ve mentioned that before, and that’s good. So take the conversation from that to go, you know, I know a couple things about Mohammed, but I’m sure I’m more interested in what you know about Mohammed. What I really know a lot about is Jesus. Could I tell you about him?

Oh. Bring it back to Jesus. Keep the message centered. Every time they try to sidetrack it, well, what do you think about Israel and Palestine? And say, you know, I think that Jesus weeps for the, the plight of the Palestinians and the plight of the Jews.

He he weeps for all of mankind. And then go into a story. If they say, well, what do you think about, you know, I I know that I’m not a bad person and say, you know, I got the story about Jesus where he talks about, his disciples. They were really mad because the disciples weren’t washing their hands before the they ate. And Jesus says, do you not know that it’s not what goes into man that defiles him but that what comes out of man defiling them?

And people are really good at washing the outside of cup and all the while the inside of the cup is dirty. Be really good at bringing every story back to Jesus and talking about something that he did. Right. You know? They could be like, man, it’s a nice day.

I’m like, you know what? There’s a story about Jesus and how he’s able to calm the sea and calm the weather. Right. They’re like, what? Tell me.

I’m serious. Right. Because they’ll be interested. Laughing at me like I’m being like, I’m joking, but I’m not joking. I’m being very serious and that Muslims are very interested in Jesus and keep the message centered on him.

Right. That’s cool. Yeah. Number 3, keep the message centered on Jesus. Number 4, Invite your Muslim friends to study the bible.

Dave Cashin. There you go. Invite your Muslim friends to study the bible. And don’t don’t say study. I know we have bible studies.

That’s just weird to to other people of another faiths. Like, you study the book. Oh, I What does that mean? Maybe it’s like coming to a, a church event if you say, let’s come, you know, have a bible study. No.

I I think it’s like studying an academic text. Oh, okay. Yeah. That too. You you read the scripture.

For them, it’s we recite the the Quran. For us, if we say study the bible, that’s weird. And they they feel like they’re not prepared. Like, it’s a is there gonna be a test? Oh, or is there gonna be a mom there or, someone religious that that has the credentials maybe?

Yeah, so just ask them. I’d like to share a story with you from scripture and then just memorize a couple. Know some stories from scripture or ask them to read it. Would you read the story? You know, it’s Christmas time and say, for instance, Christmas.

We talked a little bit last week about Muslims and Christmas, but then you might say to them, what does the Bible say anything about the birth of or does the Quran say anything about the birth of Jesus? And they’ll say, well, yes. And there’s a story about Zachariah, Jesus’s cousin, John the Baptist. There’s a story of Jesus and his virgin birth for Mary. And so, there’s all these sort of similarities.

And then you could say, would you like to read the whole story and bring them to Luke chapter 2? Yeah. And we just read that to the kids. Yeah. For Christmas.

Yeah. Yeah. All through Advent, man, reading Yes. Over and over again. Advent.

God sent the angel Gabriel to the Mary Yeah. Which master. Emmanuel means God with us. Oh, yeah. Okay.

Keep going. Number 5, pray for your Muslim friends. That’s so good. Just pray for them. And I don’t mean, like, at night when no one’s around, like, yeah, pray for them too at that time, but actually, ask them.

How how are you doing? Could I could I pray for you? When you go and I I I make it a point if if possible. Okay. Good example.

I just met a couple guys, a few weeks ago, went into their home, had some tea, hung out. And as I was leaving, I said, before I leave, can I just take a minute and pray and thank God for you guys and ask his blessing on your home? All 3 guys were like, absolutely. That’s so cool. Absolutely.

Yeah. So pray. Number 6, create a favorable environment in society through good works that minister to human need What? That’s not where I thought you were going. I know.

I know. It’s like social justice, right? Yeah. Do good things Do good deeds. Yeah.

Do good. Drink coffee. Yeah. What’s the that’s the world view of the Muslim. Right?

Do you do good deeds? Because if you’re a religious person, you will be doing good deeds. Oh, I get it. Yeah. So that’s all connected.

Right. It’s almost like putting your, your, Putting your money where your mouth is? Money where your mouth is. I I was, like, putting you something. Some I don’t okay.

Yeah. Putting your money where your mouth is. Like, do are you really religious? Oh, yeah. Show me what you’re doing.

Okay. So, I know this is getting long, but I have one one quick story. My wife and I met this one family, and we, brought them cookies. And we’re trying to love them and share the gospel with them, but we never really got to talk to them about Jesus because their father wasn’t in town. Did I share this story already?

I don’t think I did. Their father wasn’t in town. And I had this, you know, my wife and I talked about it. We thought, we really don’t wanna be sharing things with these girls, and the wife without the father being present. Let’s wait.

He’ll be back eventually. And turns out, like, he was gone for a while, like, 6 months. Woah. And so for 6 months, we just loved this family. Brought them firewood, helped tutor in math, English, helped bring food, whatever we could do to bless this family.

When the father finally came home, they said, we’d like to have you over for dinner and meet our father. So we came for dinner, and we sat down. And for the first 20 minutes of the meal, he just told us about how every night his family would call and say how much love they felt from our family. And This is a true story? This is a true story.

How much love that he had felt from our family for 6 months and that he knew when he got home, when he sat down with us that he wanted to communicate to us that they have never met anybody like us and that he our his family was now our family and that even if he wasn’t there, we had his permission to be in his home with his children, with his family. It was amazing. Wow. And so I said, you know, you know, as a new newly adopted son, I I do have I do have one I do have one request. I said, I’ve been waiting 6 months to talk to you about this because I didn’t wanna do it without your permission, but I would love to be able to share with your children, you and your wife, your whole family, what the Bible says about who Jesus is.

You said that? Yeah. I said, I am a follower of Jesus. I’ve committed my life to following him, studying him, and I even teach about him, and I’d love to teach that to your family. And what did he say?

He said, I trust because of your life. This is what’s key. Right? I trust because of your life that you know more about God than me. And anything you wanna share with my family, you can.

Gosh. I did not expect that response. So and and trust me, people. I am not a I have not always been a social justice do good type of person. I’ve been a very much preach the word, preach the word, and that changed my perspective in realizing that word and deed together is a powerful combination and that God wants us to live the gospel.

What a cool story, man. Yeah. Alright. Number 7, and I love this one. For all our Pentecostal brothers out there, trust the Holy Spirit.

Trust that the Holy Spirit is the one who’s gonna work in your Muslim friend. Don’t worry so much about I have to convert them. I have to convince them. I have to do, you know, some you know, I gotta listen to truth about Muslims enough that I can have enough knowledge to go and, you know, pull out this, magic recipe. It’s the holy spirit is the one who brings people to Christ.

That’s so good. I think a lot of people forget. I forget. Yeah. We feel like it’s it’s on us.

But, you know what? It’s God’s mission. He’s the one who draws people to himself. It’s the love of God that draws people to repentance. It’s our job to introduce them to the person of Christ and allow the Holy Spirit to do the work of convicting their heart of sin.

Cool. Yeah. So those are seven principles from Henry Martin. So this is the last thing that we wanna say. Christmas time, we said that we were gonna say something about, you know, Muslims and, Christmas and how they celebrate that kind of thing.

So we’re just gonna give you a little blurb about it. So, Trevor, tell us what we’ve been kinda, like, researching and thinking about and reading the Quran and Yeah. Well, we were looking at the Quran and and even hearing a few different Muslim scholars talk about Christmas. And what it comes down to is that a lot of Muslims are divided on this issue because a lot of Muslims wanna participate in Christmas. They wanna give gifts.

They wanna say merry Christmas. They wanna have Christmas parties with their friends. Yeah. And so the hardliners, you know, are saying no because Christmas is about, the incarnation and the accepting of Jesus as the son of god, and the Quran, you know, explicitly denies the incarnation of Christ. So they say no merry Christmas, no Christmas for Muslims.

And then the more liberal Muslims are like, well, we’re really just celebrating the virgin birth of Christ, the angel Gabriel. Right. Which is in the Quran. Yeah. I mean, the angel Gabriel, you know, Mary becomes pregnant.

She was a virgin. She’s given a a child who is to be assigned for all the peoples. I mean, that’s right out of Luke. And he is the messiah. The is the the chronic term for Jesus, Jesus the messiah.

And so they’re okay with saying, you know, well, we wanna be a part of Christmas. It’s really just this kinda thing. Thing. You know, we’re not celebrating Jesus as the son of God. We’re just saying that Jesus is here, and it’s a happy time.

So Muslims are really divided about this, but I think it’s a great time to talk about Jesus to your Muslim friends. Right. Just like we always said, you know, hey, what do you think about Christmas? What’s going on there? What do you guys do?

Do you celebrate Christian? Do you not Christmas? Do you not think? You know? And it’s not really that stupid of a question because I think sometimes people are like, well, of course, they’re not Christians.

Why would they celebrate Christmas? But it’s you know, the virgin birth, let me say it again, the virgin birth is in the Quran. The virgin birth. Right? Is in the Quran.

You know? Zechariah is in the Quran. I mean, this Yeah. He’s he’s made mute because he needs a sign from God that this is really gonna happen, John the Baptist, to be born, and the angel says, well, it’s fine. You won’t speak.

Right this is all in the Quran you know so it’s like it’s not a stupid question because they do see that that Jesus was obviously special a prophet a sign. He actually speaks from the cradle. A prophet. He’s called a word from God. Yeah.

He speaks from the cradle, defending his mother’s chastity and claiming his own prophetic status. Right. And, the gospel of Thomas if I’m not mistaken. So anyway so it’s not a stupid question just to see where they stand and just even talk about it then. So it’s kinda cool.

I think they wonder too, like, the lights, the trees. They have a lot of questions and half the time, we don’t have good answers. No. We have a lot of questions. Yeah.

One time I was putting up Christmas lights and I had a Muslim friend holding the ladder and this was, I think I’ve talked about it before. One of a close friend of my wife and I, she was holding the bottom of the ladder and I was on a 15 foot extension ladder reaching up to like the top of a second floor trying to get lights and I hear her and she’s praying as she’s holding the ladder, this rickety old ladder. And I said, hey, are you praying? And she says, says, yeah, I’m praying. I said, what are you praying?

And she says, I’m praying you won’t fall, Insha’Allah. And, Insha’Allah means if God wills. And I was like, do you mean to tell me you think God could will that I fall from this thing? She said, no, of course not. I said, why did you say inshallah?

It was just a really funny, funny time. But anyway, just live life with Muslims. Get to know them, be their friends, talk about Christmas and what it means to you and especially what Jesus means to you. Alright. This week’s sponsors.

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Real world review. Kids it. Yeah. CIU educates people from a That’s it for me and Trevor. We want you to we hope that you have a merry Christmas and an awesome New Year or have had a merry Christmas.

Hey. 12 days of Christmas, Anglicanism. Right. And then a and a and then a happy new year. God bless everybody, and thank you guys for listening.

It’s a it’s a real blessing. We’ve been looking up on our stats, seeing what what nations and where, like, our listeners are. We’ve got fans in Thailand. Yeah. In Turkey, Australia.

Saudi Arabia. The UK. Excuse me? Yeah. Kona.

Kona. Kona. Yeah. And so Portugal. We’re just kinda like, okay.

And and we keep moving up steadily on the on the Podomatic charts or whatever. I think our our our highest, we were like a 30 number 31 out of Yeah. Like, on the Christian charts. We’ve even got, like, 3 reviews now. Right.

I’m positive. Hopefully, there’ll be more, but yeah. But, yeah, even then. And and we just really are blessed that you guys would be listening. So thank you so much, and this is, this is it for Howard and Trevor.

Yeah. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year.